another Alfa Romeo conversion
another Alfa Romeo conversion
Hi all,
I first started thinking about converting my '77 GTV to EFI about 10 years ago.
It was originally bought as a parts car to keep my other GTV on the road, but somehow ended up as a track car
Back then, I looked at the 808 as a possible candidate that fitted my non-existent budget, but no RT and the lack of a thoroughly documented bin turned me off the idea. I started collecting bits and pieces of hardware with the idea of one day buying an aftermarket ECU.
First was the manifold - I was offered an efi manifold off a Bosch spider about 5 years ago, so grabbed it and stuck it in the shed...
A year or two ago I was offered the use of an old Haltec F9 for the project, so I got stuck in and ripped the head off the engine, made the necessary mods to the inlet ports and put it all back together.
Then for one reason or another, the F9 never eventuated, so the car has sat motionless since then.
Then, a week or two ago while googling for something or other efi related, I stumbled upon this forum and saw how far the humble 808 has come in the last few years!
I spent a few days reading as many threads as I could to get an understanding of what I'd need to go the Delco route, then started drawing up an NVRAM board from the various information I could find - which was interesting, considering I'd never actually seen a Delco ECU or memcal in the flesh
I found the schematic for the '165 which I understand to be the same as the 808 but with the SXR chip (does that make it identical to the 082?) and based my PCB on that.
I spent a week looking for a cheap 808 online, and ended up getting an 082 with a BLCD memcal for $25
So, I've got a bunch of questions I'll be asking soon - but thought I'd say hi first, and share a couple of pics of what I'm starting with before hitting you all up for answers
Here's the Bosch spider manifold installed
And here's a few of the parts I've collected over the years, in preparation for the eventual conversion:
Next step is to pay a visit to my local wrecker and see if I can get my hands on a loom. I'm hoping they've got an old JE camira I can pillage, otherwise I'll have to cut down a VN loom to the bare necessities.
I still have to sort out injectors, the OEM ones are low impedance hose tail units.
I'd prefer to stick with that style if possible, but haven't been able to find anything that uses a high impedance version of them so might have to end up using o-ring injectors instead.
Don't hold your breath for this conversion to be completed, it'll probably take me another year at the rate I'm going
I first started thinking about converting my '77 GTV to EFI about 10 years ago.
It was originally bought as a parts car to keep my other GTV on the road, but somehow ended up as a track car
Back then, I looked at the 808 as a possible candidate that fitted my non-existent budget, but no RT and the lack of a thoroughly documented bin turned me off the idea. I started collecting bits and pieces of hardware with the idea of one day buying an aftermarket ECU.
First was the manifold - I was offered an efi manifold off a Bosch spider about 5 years ago, so grabbed it and stuck it in the shed...
A year or two ago I was offered the use of an old Haltec F9 for the project, so I got stuck in and ripped the head off the engine, made the necessary mods to the inlet ports and put it all back together.
Then for one reason or another, the F9 never eventuated, so the car has sat motionless since then.
Then, a week or two ago while googling for something or other efi related, I stumbled upon this forum and saw how far the humble 808 has come in the last few years!
I spent a few days reading as many threads as I could to get an understanding of what I'd need to go the Delco route, then started drawing up an NVRAM board from the various information I could find - which was interesting, considering I'd never actually seen a Delco ECU or memcal in the flesh
I found the schematic for the '165 which I understand to be the same as the 808 but with the SXR chip (does that make it identical to the 082?) and based my PCB on that.
I spent a week looking for a cheap 808 online, and ended up getting an 082 with a BLCD memcal for $25
So, I've got a bunch of questions I'll be asking soon - but thought I'd say hi first, and share a couple of pics of what I'm starting with before hitting you all up for answers
Here's the Bosch spider manifold installed
And here's a few of the parts I've collected over the years, in preparation for the eventual conversion:
Next step is to pay a visit to my local wrecker and see if I can get my hands on a loom. I'm hoping they've got an old JE camira I can pillage, otherwise I'll have to cut down a VN loom to the bare necessities.
I still have to sort out injectors, the OEM ones are low impedance hose tail units.
I'd prefer to stick with that style if possible, but haven't been able to find anything that uses a high impedance version of them so might have to end up using o-ring injectors instead.
Don't hold your breath for this conversion to be completed, it'll probably take me another year at the rate I'm going
- VL400
- Posts: 4991
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- cars: VL Calais and Toyota Landcruiser. Plus some toys :)
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Re: another Alfa Romeo conversion
Welcome and nice project
Bargain of the year with that onefesty wrote:I spent a week looking for a cheap 808 online, and ended up getting an 082 with a BLCD memcal for $25
- Holden202T
- Posts: 10311
- Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2009 9:05 pm
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Re: another Alfa Romeo conversion
just a tip, you'll only need one of them lift pumps to keep the surge tank full!
No matter what the question is, the answer is always more horsepower!
Just starting out? Have a read of the getting started guide
Basic tuning of a delco ECM with $12P thread
Advanced tuning of a delco ECM with $12P thread
Just starting out? Have a read of the getting started guide
Basic tuning of a delco ECM with $12P thread
Advanced tuning of a delco ECM with $12P thread
Re: another Alfa Romeo conversion
Thanks for the welcome. Hopefully I'll be able to contribute something back once I get up to speed with it all.VL400 wrote:Welcome and nice project
Yeah, that's what I thought. Sometimes it pays to look closely at the photos on ebay, and not just assume the description is correctVL400 wrote:Bargain of the year with that onefesty wrote:I spent a week looking for a cheap 808 online, and ended up getting an 082 with a BLCD memcal for $25
Yeah, good point. I'm inclined to plumb them both in but only use one though, for the sake of redundancy.Holden202 wrote:just a tip, you'll old need one of them lift pumps to keep the surge tank full!
I've had a few of those little square pumps fail in various applications, to the point of not really trusting them too much.
Here's a couple more pics I found from the last time I had it out on a track... it was 2006
- Holden202T
- Posts: 10311
- Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2009 9:05 pm
- Location: Tenambit, NSW
- Contact:
Re: another Alfa Romeo conversion
lol im not surpsied, the one my brother had we got off ebay delivered for like $20festy wrote:Yeah, good point. I'm inclined to plumb them both in but only use one though, for the sake of redundancy.Holden202 wrote:just a tip, you'll only need one of them lift pumps to keep the surge tank full!
I've had a few of those little square pumps fail in various applications, to the point of not really trusting them too much.
No matter what the question is, the answer is always more horsepower!
Just starting out? Have a read of the getting started guide
Basic tuning of a delco ECM with $12P thread
Advanced tuning of a delco ECM with $12P thread
Just starting out? Have a read of the getting started guide
Basic tuning of a delco ECM with $12P thread
Advanced tuning of a delco ECM with $12P thread
Re: another Alfa Romeo conversion
Will the ECU be upset by not having IAC connected?
The spider manifold has a Solex tb which I've already swapped the WOT switch with a TPS, but there's no provision for idle control.
I've got a VR tb that I could adapt easy enough, but I really want to make this thing look as oem as possible - to the point of sacrificing the extra flow of the larger tb to avoid it looking non-standard.
I couldn't care less if it idles like crap, it's not a road car - but will the ecu be constantly logging codes, or can I just effectively disable IAC movement so the ECU never notices it's missing?
The spider manifold has a Solex tb which I've already swapped the WOT switch with a TPS, but there's no provision for idle control.
I've got a VR tb that I could adapt easy enough, but I really want to make this thing look as oem as possible - to the point of sacrificing the extra flow of the larger tb to avoid it looking non-standard.
I couldn't care less if it idles like crap, it's not a road car - but will the ecu be constantly logging codes, or can I just effectively disable IAC movement so the ECU never notices it's missing?
- Holden202T
- Posts: 10311
- Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2009 9:05 pm
- Location: Tenambit, NSW
- Contact:
Re: another Alfa Romeo conversion
i don't think it will run too badly without it, but another option is to use the IAC in a vaccum hose into the manifold, but it would mean making a mounting block for it
No matter what the question is, the answer is always more horsepower!
Just starting out? Have a read of the getting started guide
Basic tuning of a delco ECM with $12P thread
Advanced tuning of a delco ECM with $12P thread
Just starting out? Have a read of the getting started guide
Basic tuning of a delco ECM with $12P thread
Advanced tuning of a delco ECM with $12P thread
Re: another Alfa Romeo conversion
Yeah, I suppose I could hide the IAC away under the manifold out of sight, hadn't thought about retrofitting it.
But if I can do without it, I probably will.
But if I can do without it, I probably will.
Re: another Alfa Romeo conversion
hi,
good to see another alfa conversion underway! nice car btw, good offset wheels aswel, just needs to be lowerd a bit is that the only alfa you have?
if you really get stuck with the inlet manifold, ditch the spider one and install a je camira inlet manifold, this would give you the o-ring injectors and an option for a iac!
will you be going with a distributer or wasted spark ignition?
in the next week i will machine a spair pulley, to get rid of the aircon belts, and make up a crank trigger wheel and bolt it to the pulley , if your interested i can make x2 ? would make ur install alot easier as you can simpley 'bolt it on'.
cheers,
brad
good to see another alfa conversion underway! nice car btw, good offset wheels aswel, just needs to be lowerd a bit is that the only alfa you have?
if you really get stuck with the inlet manifold, ditch the spider one and install a je camira inlet manifold, this would give you the o-ring injectors and an option for a iac!
will you be going with a distributer or wasted spark ignition?
in the next week i will machine a spair pulley, to get rid of the aircon belts, and make up a crank trigger wheel and bolt it to the pulley , if your interested i can make x2 ? would make ur install alot easier as you can simpley 'bolt it on'.
cheers,
brad
Re: another Alfa Romeo conversion
No, there's another lurking in the shed next to it.BradGTV wrote:hi,
good to see another alfa conversion underway! nice car btw, good offset wheels aswel, just needs to be lowerd a bit is that the only alfa you have?
Those are old photos though, it hasn't been driven in about 10 years
You'll notice that those wheels in the other photo actually belong to this car, they were only on the track car temporarily - I normally run a set of 16x7s - hence why with 14" wheels it looks too tall.
It's not that I'm stuck - I've got an o-ring fuel rail almost ready to go, it's just that I'd really like to keep it looking completely stock, considering that the group 5s regs were amended a couple of years ago to now allow OEM efi vehicles.BradGTV wrote: if you really get stuck with the inlet manifold, ditch the spider one and install a je camira inlet manifold, this would give you the o-ring injectors and an option for a iac!
If I end up having to run o-ring injectors, I'm toying with the idea of making up a cast aluminium rail, it'd look right at home with that plenum
I'll be sticking with the Bosch electronic distributor setup initially, but plan b would necessitate it's removal so I'll be making preparations for DIS should I need it in the future.BradGTV wrote: will you be going with a distributer or wasted spark ignition?
Thanks for the offer, but I've already got the trigger wheel sorted... I think, I haven't tested it yet.BradGTV wrote: in the next week i will machine a spair pulley, to get rid of the aircon belts, and make up a crank trigger wheel and bolt it to the pulley , if your interested i can make x2 ? would make ur install alot easier as you can simpley 'bolt it on'.
cheers,
brad
If I give up on trying to keep it all looking original, plan B will involve machining up a new crankshaft pulley to accommodate a small blower.
Then again, maybe I could convince the scrutineers that it's just a big air conditioner compressor? It does get awful hot in italy, after all