WTF - 808 NVRAM 12P USB Wideband MAP - Wiring Mods - Camaro

[redcamaro]

This should probably be under wiring, couldn't decide...

I just built up an 808 with NVRAM & USB running 12P code (of course)... So it was all going good with under dash test, so it was time to install it proberly.

*** Problemo *** (My bad for sure) Now it starts but dies after about 10 seconds, like there's no fuel. And when I connect TP5 RT the dashboard starts going hay wire even without starting the engine.

Like the wtf.xdl attached below...

Took the dash apart relocsated the ECU, did some wiring changes, to make it even better. I was checking all the GND Distribution.

Other additional changes were:
- cut out some redundant temporary test wires near the ALDL.
- removed some of the the "old" MAF circuit.
- Moved MAP wires - Power from shared with TPS on C14 to B12 (no resistor), Sig "B" goes to C11, moved MAP GND to A11.
- some other bits and pieces...

Obviously got a wire wrong somewhere - any suggestions where to start looking?


Oh forgot to mention,.. I did try to flash it with the flashtool before I started pulling it down, but it didn't cause this problemo - I recall driving around the block before I started the job.

[VL400]

Turn cable echo on and it will fix the logging issue

[redcamaro]

No it doesn't - I did that first up. I think it's a wiring problem. I hoped someone would have seen this before, and suggest what would make TP5 behave like that i.e. check certain pins at the ECU connectors, or MAP wiring is wrong etc.

It's not the ECU - it tested fine before the job. It's not the software, unless I broke it with Flashtool. I drove the car around the block, and the system was fine. Now, even Logworks is giving incorrect information...

All I've done,.. is a a major wiring overhaul as I mentioned earlier

The engine starts then it eventually dies - nothing can save it... Pressing the accelerator makes it die quicker, pumping it makes it sort of rev,cough and backfire - while it's inevitably going to die.


While I was doing the job there were a few things I wasn't too sure about:
1. Does B12 need a resistor on it to get +5.0 Volts, or can I have the MAP getting reference voltage from it directly?

2. What's the difference between "System Ground" and "Analog Ground" at the ECU pins?

3. Does the Innovate LC-1 ground to an ECU pin or to the engine block, and MAP GND wire to ECU or the engine block?

My objective was to get the ECU and sensors all grounded properly.

[VL400]

No it doesn't - I did that first up. I think it's a wiring problem. I hoped someone would have seen this before, and suggest what would make TP5 behave like that i.e. check certain pins at the ECU connectors, or MAP wiring is wrong etc.

Seen it before many times and it was echo. Also looking at the XDL file I can see the commands your sending to the ECU being logged as data which shows that for your WTF log echo was most def not on. If your using the plugin confirm cable echo is on.

While I was doing the job there were a few things I wasn't too sure about:
1. Does B12 need a resistor on it to get +5.0 Volts, or can I have the MAP getting reference voltage from it directly?

B12 is a spare analog input, MAP should be getting a 5V reference from C14 (put it back to how it was being shared with the TPS)

2. What's the difference between "System Ground" and "Analog Ground" at the ECU pins?

Analog gnd is the electrically quiet earth where sensors need the smallest electrical noise to get stable readings. System ground is for heavy current and noisy stuff like injector grounding.

3. Does the Innovate LC-1 ground to an ECU pin or to the engine block, and MAP GND wire to ECU or the engine block?

Use the same ground on the engine block as the ECU system grounds for the LC1, dont wire it to the analog gnd wire. MAP gnd goes to A11.

[redcamaro]

It was the same with echo on and off, so now I'm thinking there is problemoly a lot of ground noise interfering with the Analog ground/s.

I had wired D1 D3 D6 & D10 to the same point on the engine block. Hmmm?

The LC-1 has System and Analog grounds too,.. so what about LC-1 Analog ground to D6 and LC-1 System ground to body/engine somewhere?

2. What's the difference between "System Ground" and "Analog Ground" at the ECU pins?

Analog gnd is the electrically quiet earth where sensors need the smallest electrical noise to get stable readings. System ground is for heavy current and noisy stuff like injector grounding.

3. Does the Innovate LC-1 ground to an ECU pin or to the engine block, and MAP GND wire to ECU or the engine block?

Use the same ground on the engine block as the ECU system grounds for the LC1, dont wire it to the analog gnd wire. MAP gnd goes to A11.

Checking my understanding of the ground concept:
So for someone who is starting from scratch... (me at th' mo';) re/building a new grounding system; there are 2 different types of ground 1. Analog [quiet/sensitive] 2. System [noisy/heavy duty], and there are physically two options to 'mount ' these A. Engine Block, and B. Body. Then there might also be a ground strap from the engine to the body.

Main objective (besides "good" ground connections everywhere) is to have a relatively QUIET set of Analog Grounds - like find a quiet space in the body/engine to make the Analog Ground connection point. Be sure to not disturb that space later by feeding a noisy ground into it.

[Please correct this if it's wrong, or you can add clarity to it].

My question is where is that quiet spot,.. or how can the separation of "ground areas" be achieved. Is there a way of knowing/understanding where/how the ground noise disipates? Any rules of thumb welcome here.

Then how does the engine ground strap fit into it all i.e. what are the pros & cons of a ground strap?

[Jayme]

where are you turning echo on and off? if you are using the OSE plugin, the echo setting in the adx becomes meaningless, you need to set echo in the OSE plugin settings.

[redcamaro]

It seems to be working fine now. I think it was either; MAP power connected to B12, noisy ground somewhere, or both.

where are you turning echo on and off?

In Tools::Preferences.

TP5 Echo Setting

echo-setting.PNG (38.07 KiB) Viewed 7677 times

Real Time Tuning - TP5 RT
I went for a drive and uploading the redcamaro_tp5rt_log_001 file.

redcamaro_tp5rt_log_001.xdl

redcamaro_tp5rt_log_001 - too rich

(140.79 KiB) Downloaded 336 times

I think it's running too rich, so I wish to make it leaner:
1. What is the most straight forward way to do this?
2. May I have assistance with my first real time variable change?
The system is connected and working but I'm not sure how to modify and write a single variable in real-time i.e. what features have turned on/off and where in TP5 RT to change it, and how to execute the write.

[VL400]

For how RT works have a read of the guide here (first post highlighted in green) .. https://pcmhacking.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=590

Def running rich First step is to make sure the inj rate is set correctly to match the inj size and cyl size - kinjflow calculator https://pcmhacking.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=334

[redcamaro]

I have read the guide (a while back), but was always unsure about how to change a single variable in real time.

It would be great if we knew a simple "Getting Started in RT" process how to set TP5 RT or OSE Flashtool to execute the task. You know it's always easier to modify something that already works, than to get something that doesn't work (i.e. me;) to work.

Another question (I'm writing it here so that other board readers can see the process - I'm going through in RT;) is to do with Custom Memory Mapping in OSE Flashtool ...

OSE FT Custom Memory Mapping

OSE_FT_custom_mem_map.PNG (20.17 KiB) Viewed 7670 times

Using the NVRAM containing two 32Kb binary (bin) programs starting at $08000 and $18000 respectively, I see the default memory settings in OSE Flashtool are to start from $8000 i.e. the first bin.

What needs to change in order to get to the other bin that starts at $18000?

[VL400]

The guide has everything you need to know to update anything from single byte to the whole cal. It was uploaded yesterday so I think you read something else awhile back...

You cant read the second bank by just asking for it in the flashtool, the ECU cannot address 128k. Its hardware switched using the jumper on the NVRAM called MAP_SW - there is a table in the instructions that shows the mapping and some examples. Also, written on the NVRAM board is jumper on - low bank and jumper off - high bank.

Jumper on and read the low bank in the flashtool. Jumper off and read the high bank in the flashtool. It does not know which bank your reading, as far as the ECU is concerned its world can be no larger than 64k, but we are using 128k to gain dual bins.