VS V6 Manual Odd Idle speed problem

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Re: VS V6 Manual Odd Idle speed problem

Postby Ken » Tue May 29, 2018 3:12 am

immortality wrote:I'm surprised the T5 tune worked considering it's looking for a different speed sensor input.

The check light did glow, though I couldn't fault the way the car ran.

And although I would never dismiss the effort & time that people here have put into making these xdf's, I have found 2 different items pointing to the same hex address, & in studying these 2 pics below, I'm thinking there may be others.
I'm thinking the Getrag.xdf started out as the auto one..
I know what it's like sitting in from of a monitor typing hours of text/script etc etc, you can look at something a hundred times, then come back to the code some months later, & wonder A:how the heck you missed an error, & B: how the heck did it even run..

Looking at these 2 pics below has me wondering if there's a byte offset in the xdf's pointer just in these few items..

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Re: VS V6 Manual Odd Idle speed problem

Postby immortality » Tue May 29, 2018 7:50 am

Yeah, I've come across the odd error too although I haven't ever used that particular tune. Fortunately 95% of what is in a tune we don't really need to change, the other issue as you may have found is that the tune is probably correct but an XDF error means you are looking at the wrong data. I'm useless at Hex, but sometimes I use the 2D data viewer to compare data between similar tunes which are quiet often located at different positions. Fortunately this seems to work for me most of the time.

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Re: VS V6 Manual Odd Idle speed problem

Postby Ken » Tue May 29, 2018 4:50 pm

In taking a good look, I can see for sure that the areas I'm meant to be editing to reduce / stop the throttle flare are being pointed to the wrong address via the .xdf.
I'll have to investigate this when I have more time over the coming weekend..

You can see by the pics posted below, the 2 sections of code required to do what I'm attempting to modify, actually overlap each other, I've put the hex address of each of the parameters, on the left of the parameter in red writing, & put a red square on the bottom of each pic, that shows where the .xdf is pointing to..

MaxTFS.PNG


MaxTFS_VS.PNG

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Re: VS V6 Manual Odd Idle speed problem

Postby oldn64 » Tue May 29, 2018 5:23 pm

This might be a case of changing one value in the vehicle speed side to see whether there is any difference in vehicle attitude.

I know that it is definitely overlapping BUT it is very hard to decipher which is the incorrect one. I would suggest the width of the tables will be correcta nd only the offseet/start will be incorrect. short of manually mapping the XDF manually it will take a little bit of time to find the actual incorrect table. If you could find the next logical table then it might give you a heads up as to which is wrong.

cheers
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Re: VS V6 Manual Odd Idle speed problem

Postby Ken » Sat Aug 25, 2018 8:18 pm

Something I've noticed a few times whilst here working in Sydney, is the idle doesn't flair when pulling up under certain circumstances, been noticing it for a few weeks now, worked out tonight how to replicate it.
Don't use the gears to slow the car down at any time when coming to a stop.

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Re: VS V6 Manual Odd Idle speed problem

Postby Ken » Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:27 am

15/1600+ throttle flair got me looking at this again over the weekend, got to wondering if there's something else I could alter in tunerpro to stop the flair, turns out there was, I noticed that there's 2 flags set in this binary for manual, the first is the usual "manual transmission option" flag, then another below it for the getrag, so I took the tick out of the getrag option, reset the computer and went for a drive, turns out the flair is gone 100%, though I get a check light after about a minute of driving if I plant the right foot down, otherwise it's faultless.

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Re: VS V6 Manual Odd Idle speed problem

Postby delcowizzid » Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:55 am

You just turned the speed sensor off so it doesn't know it's moving hence no flare normally they stall when you clutch in after decelerating with no speed signal unless the throttle screw is wound in to far
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Re: VS V6 Manual Odd Idle speed problem

Postby Ken » Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:11 pm

delcowizzid wrote:You just turned the speed sensor off so it doesn't know it's moving hence no flare normally they stall when you clutch in after decelerating with no speed signal unless the throttle screw is wound in to far

I took the TB off a few moths ago to clean it and the IAC, I remember thinking back then that the screw was backed off to the point it was nearly shutting it off completely..
Do the VS commo's with the T5 manual not have a speed sensor too, I've looked in their tunes and only found the one setting to state it being a manual, where the getrag one has 2.

Also seems that other people have found this to be an annoying feature, found a post regarding the issue on some commodore forum, though I don't agree with his opinion of why it does it.
Idle_High.PNG

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Re: VS V6 Manual Odd Idle speed problem

Postby vlad01 » Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:20 pm

They do have a sensor, it's just that it's a 12V square wave from a hall sensor not an AC wave from the getrag and auto reluctor type sensor.

If I recall only certain versions of the manual VS ecu has the populated components on the PCB to even read from a hall sensor so some will not read at all from a T5 vss.
I'm the director of VSH (Vlad's Spec Holden), because HSV were doing it ass about.

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Re: VS V6 Manual Odd Idle speed problem

Postby Ken » Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:32 pm

vlad01 wrote:They do have a sensor, it's just that it's a 12V square wave from a hall sensor not an AC wave from the getrag and auto reluctor type sensor.

If I recall only certain versions of the manual VS ecu has the populated components on the PCB to even read from a hall sensor so some will not read at all from a T5 vss.

Ah ok, different wave forms, sine as opposed to square.
My next question then, would be that when I first joined and bought the gear to play with my sons first VS, it too was a manual, though was given an nvram with an auto tune on it, I didn't get to use it as he killed the car before I had the time to. would that have given me grief regarding speed sensor.
It was a BRHR6556 original manual police V6.
I'm burning I didn't keep the pcm out of that car when we went to the crash holding yard to claim his belongings, it was a one-of pcm.

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