Ecotec LS Coil Driver

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Re: Ecotec LS Coil Driver

Post by vlad01 »

immortality wrote:The Skid Factory did a recent video where they "upgraded" a genuine VL HDT with efi and Haltech using a VT V8 distributor for timing with coil per cylinder ignition. When they put it on the dyno it had a huge problem with ignition scatter. They then upgraded to a crank trigger using a 36-1 trigger wheel and the timing was rock solid after that.

I've had the same experience with 5L cars, unstable ignition, but more importantly I have never been able to log/tune real time due to radio noise the v8 ignition system produces.
Only time it's worked fine is in delco/5L conversions into other cars, a Torana and a Monaro in my case, but native commodore... nope... spammed with DA errors. Haven't been able to work out the exact cause so I speculate it's either the loom routing or some other complex overall commodore electrical system + ignition interaction.

A crank trigger upgrade should solve these issues.

Had 0 issues with V6 cars.
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Re: Ecotec LS Coil Driver

Post by antus »

I believe this module retains the original DFI, but it is a piggyback to run ls1 coils and provide spark cut. So your trigger would not change. Correct me if I am wrong SilentBob.
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Re: Ecotec LS Coil Driver

Post by SilentBob »

immortality wrote:The Skid Factory did a recent video where they "upgraded" a genuine VL HDT with efi and Haltech using a VT V8 distributor for timing with coil per cylinder ignition. When they put it on the dyno it had a huge problem with ignition scatter. They then upgraded to a crank trigger using a 36-1 trigger wheel and the timing was rock solid after that.
I saw that one, the timing scatter is pretty common with cam driven sensors, as far as I know its the backlash in the drive gear where it meets the cam that causes the issue. If the cams are belt driven it's even more of a problem because of belt deflection or stretch.
antus wrote:I believe this module retains the original DFI, but it is a piggyback to run ls1 coils and provide spark cut. So your trigger would not change. Correct me if I am wrong SilentBob.
Yep spot on, this keeps the orignal DFI module and just creates a suitable signal to drive the LS coils from that output.
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Re: Ecotec LS Coil Driver

Post by OZ38 »

SilentBob wrote:Following on from VL400s thread viewtopic.php?f=11&t=3065&start=150, I've made my own version of the LS coil driver box.

This thread is for discussion, questions, people wanting one, etc.

The ECD (Ecotec Coil Driver) is to convert the DFI coil signal to allow users to run LS coils on the Ecotec/L67. **Coils with overdwell protection are not suitable as the factory ecu still controls dwell and as far as I'm aware isn't adjustable**


Any questions or anything feel free to post here or message me.

Hi SilentBob,
Coils with overdwell protection ?
Is that possibly the IGN-1A type ?
Hoping not.
Cheers
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Re: Ecotec LS Coil Driver

Post by SilentBob »

OZ38 wrote: Hi SilentBob,
Coils with overdwell protection ?
Is that possibly the IGN-1A type ?
Hoping not.
Cheers
Coils like the LS2 type will discharge if you try to have a dwell period that is too long, greater than about 4.5ms. When the dfi module is controlling dwell (during cranking or fault modes) i believe it will set dwell at about 8ms which would cause problems.

As far as I'm aware IGN-1A coils don't have this problem and will handle up to around 11ms but they'll be pulling a fair amount of current at that time
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Re: Ecotec LS Coil Driver

Post by OZ38 »

SilentBob wrote:
OZ38 wrote: Hi SilentBob,
Coils with overdwell protection ?
Is that possibly the IGN-1A type ?
Hoping not.
Cheers
Coils like the LS2 type will discharge if you try to have a dwell period that is too long, greater than about 4.5ms. When the dfi module is controlling dwell (during cranking or fault modes) i believe it will set dwell at about 8ms which would cause problems.

As far as I'm aware IGN-1A coils don't have this problem and will handle up to around 11ms but they'll be pulling a fair amount of current at that time
Soooo,
I don't actually know what type coils the LS2/3 have. Are they anything like the IGN-1A coil ? Would this discharge from a long dwell period break the engine, as i suppose your suggesting they could fire in advance of TDC ?

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Re: Ecotec LS Coil Driver

Post by BennVenn »

No, it is effectively a capacitor in series with the signal which will bleed off the voltage going to the mosfet/ignitor inside the coil. It doesn't spark when dwell is exceeded, it just slowly discharges the coil energy over a few mS. It heats up the ignitor but there won't be a spark at all. If the max is set to say, 4.5ms, if the ecu triggers beyond 4.5mS it'll still spark but at a very reduced spark energy. at 6mS it's probably already fully discharged so there'll be no spark.

There's no risk to the engine at all, but repeated excessive dwell will destroy the ignitor in a fairly short amount of time.
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Re: Ecotec LS Coil Driver

Post by OZ38 »

BennVenn wrote:No, it is effectively a capacitor in series with the signal which will bleed off the voltage going to the mosfet/ignitor inside the coil. It doesn't spark when dwell is exceeded, it just slowly discharges the coil energy over a few mS. It heats up the ignitor but there won't be a spark at all. If the max is set to say, 4.5ms, if the ecu triggers beyond 4.5mS it'll still spark but at a very reduced spark energy. at 6mS it's probably already fully discharged so there'll be no spark.

There's no risk to the engine at all, but repeated excessive dwell will destroy the ignitor in a fairly short amount of time.
Thanks for that explanation.

Are you also able to explain why they call the IGN-1A coils "Smart Coils" ?
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Re: Ecotec LS Coil Driver

Post by BennVenn »

I'm not familiar with the LS stuff at all, but a 'smart coil' is usually just one with an ignitor built in
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Re: Ecotec LS Coil Driver

Post by antus »

The protection is a thing with most the LS coils. I dont think it'd be a problem, > 5ms dwell is a long time. Handover to PCM is usually 400 rpm, so with a safety margin you could measure what dwell the stock coilpack provides and subtract 5ms and if it travels less than 10 degrees in the time of the early fire it wont knock. So say its 8ms dwell, subtract 5ms as the dwell you'll still get, it'll be 3 ms early, so if its less than 10 degrees at 500 rpm (100rpm safety margin, and as its targeting 10 degrees BTDC) then it should be fine. No I dont have the maths for that, its just an idea :)
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