202 FE Holden/Delco Conversion

Converting To Delco ECU From Carby Or Other Injection Systems
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202 FE Holden/Delco Conversion

Postby FEBlue202 » Wed Sep 07, 2011 5:08 pm

I have been watching with interest the 202 EFI Bosch conversions to Delco, and have decided it is the way to go.
Have now got a 202 EFI complete, and will replace current 186 with this setup.
The 202 EFI has been modified and has hydraulic lifters, roller rockers, straight cut timing gear, (cam may be changed after I get tuning facts)
Car drive will be manual 5 speed Celica, and other HR running gear.
I have a VN V8 throttle body and have fitted it to the EFI Manifold (as per Holden202 posts)
My problems start with the PCM and Memcal units: I know FA about electronics and tuning, but can see that some of the board members know heaps.
The car will be completely rewired to VT Commodore specification, BCM, PCM, relays, fuses, AC, controls and dash. Engine wiring and hardware will also be VT.
Help, as I hope I haven't bitten off more than I can chew!
I am in Sydney and would like some help with this project.
FEBlue202

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Re: 202 FE Holden/Delco Conversion

Postby Jayme » Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:24 pm

well I dont like your chances of running a 202 off a VT computer. I dont know anyone who has put a VT pcm onto an engine with a reluctor dizzy and camira module. the other delcoed 202's have all been using the VN 808 computer. my choice would definitely be the tried and tested 808, if you really want to try for the VT pcm, I wish you luck, maybe some others can help with some details on how it could be done.

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Re: 202 FE Holden/Delco Conversion

Postby Holden202T » Wed Sep 07, 2011 7:31 pm

ok well this is my initial thoughts on this...

VT pcm:

* going to need to make a custom crank trigger wheel to work with the v6 coil packs as i don't think you can run a camira ignition module on a VT PCM (VL400 can confirm this hopefully)
* sequential injection wont work unless you mount a cam sensor on the motor but having said that sequential not working is not an issue.
* you will need to run a maf sensor unless you want to go mafless which would probably mean kalmaker ($$$) and im not sure how well the maf will like a 202
* only real advantage to using the VT PCM is it just all plugs in and controls the auto, but with you running a manual will be not needed ...
* not sure what options for VSS but will probably work with a T5 sensor.

using an 808:

* this is by far the easier option and should just require a bit of custom wiring to connect it to the VT wiring loom.
* will work alot better for tuning as there has been alot more development on $12P compared to the later hardware, which will mean alot easier to tune and more options available in the definition.
* there are already a few 202 custom tunes floating around which will mean you will have a better starting point to tune from.
* $12P not having a MAF will mean you will be able to grasp tuning it alot easier than a MAF pcm.
* im not 100% sure if the dash and everything will work with this computer on the VT wiring loom, that might be something someone else can assist with info on.

my personal opinion is i would run the 808 and wire it into the VT loom, will be alot cheaper than having to make custom triggers and such and will end up very similar in performance and economy and be alot less tuning effort.

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Re: 202 FE Holden/Delco Conversion

Postby FEBlue202 » Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:04 pm

Thank you for comments/advice. A lot to think about.
Mechanically:
I believe that I can fit a VN/VT Crank Angle Sensor Harmonic Balancer to control the V6 coil packs.
Cam Angle Sensor, will be fitted into remains of VK Distributor, easy to adjust, and rotates at correct speed.
MAF Sensor can be placed between Air filter and manifold, how it works - I don't know.
Electrically:
Wiring will be all VT
Engine Electronics:
I am listening!
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Re: 202 FE Holden/Delco Conversion

Postby Holden202T » Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:16 pm

well i guess if your willing to run all the required sensors and such from a VT then go your hardest and see what happens i guess!

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Re: 202 FE Holden/Delco Conversion

Postby FEBlue202 » Wed Sep 07, 2011 11:30 pm

Holden202,
Thankyou for the frank advice.
Taking on board your thoughts, I am more than willing to go my hardest with the modifications I understand (ie the mechanical/electrical parts)
However, I need your thoughts on the programing of the Delco / Memcal /BCM etc (the bits that you have so much experience on), and in particular:
If the 202 engine, running a unified VT PCM /BCM management system was at your place, could you tune it. And just as importantly, could you have it all work with disabled/deactivated components such as - no power windows, - no climate control, - no abs, - no airbags.
(Active components would be - all relays and fuses, - VT aircondioning and engines fans, - VT cruise control / wiper / lights / indicator stalks, - VT dash sensor indicators and guages)
Should you feel VT is going too far, then how about VN Delco / Memcal /BCM with adaptions for aircondioning and engines fans, - VT cruise control / wiper / lights / indicator stalks etc.
As I am in Sydney, and with relatives New Castle, would you be interested in the development of this project, anytime soon?
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Re: 202 FE Holden/Delco Conversion

Postby festy » Thu Sep 08, 2011 6:28 am

Why VT? Is it that you have a donor vehicle already, or is there something specific about the VT that you want?
I don't know much about Commodores, but I'm sure this conversion would be a lot simpler if you used say VR electrics (if that was an option).

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Re: 202 FE Holden/Delco Conversion

Postby FEBlue202 » Thu Sep 08, 2011 8:51 am

This is where a novice to this area of engine management may be 'rushing in where angels fear to tread'
Being a bit long in the tooth, all this electronic engine is new to me, so I did some research, and also let fate take its course.

How did I get to this point:
1. I have Holden with 202 mechanical's in place, and wanted a programable EFI setup ie VK EFI
2. I found / reviewed the Delco Hacking Board, and noted why the Bosch system was being discarded for Delco 808.
3. I have a partial VN loom, from a V8
4. I want to fit cruise control, with factory look stalk controls (VS/VT Commodore)
5. I am fitting rack & pinion steering with modern collapsible column
6. Nephew was scrapping a VT, so full wiring loom is available for use.

What I have factored in:
7. Fitting a VN/VT Crank Angle Sensor Harmonic Balancer to control the V6 coil packs.
8. Fitting a Cam Angle Sensor, into remains of a VK Distributor.
9. Fitting all required engine sensors
10. Making Body and Engine Loom VT, and then use an enlarged Relay / Fuse Board to interface with 'older/other electrical wiring/controls'.

What I have not factored in (and this may be a project breaker):
11. The differences between the various Commodore Models PCM & BCM's from VN through VT.
12. Programming, Re-programming the various boards.

Where to now:
13. As I will be completely re-wiring, I could go anywhere from VN to VT.
14. Cruise Control is important, as are column stalk controls, so a VS / VT BCM would be preferred route (or as suggested by 'festy'- VR if stalk controls for cruise work).
15. Reviewing 'Holden202' thoughts on using an 808 / $12P. I like the reasoning for the engine tuning. The loom/dash components would also be VN. I may have new problems integrating stalk controlled cruise module (this is where VS /VT is attractive)
16. Go back and use standard VK EFI - no way !!!

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Re: 202 FE Holden/Delco Conversion

Postby Holden202T » Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:01 am

Yeah i would go VR due it not being MAF .... i have actually fitted a complete VR V6 and auto along with the entire car loom into an FB Ute, for similar reasons i wanted the cruise control, column and bits and wanted all the mod cons of the commodores like central locking etc.....

its a big job but its totally doable .... the route i am taking though is to wire up the VR wiring into the old dash (albiet with new gauges etc) so it all looks old school (ie. chrome dash panel) but has the modern shit under it.

I think you need to sit down and think about it all, as i see it you have 3 options:

1. go the VT wiring route - this road will be largly walked alone and a big "hope it all works process" with no guarantees.
2. go with an earlier one like VR etc and be able to do what you want alot easier and still retain the features you want.
3. go for a simpler approach like just wiring in the 202 with VN loom and 808 and then not have alot of the options you wanted.

i think the biggest problem with using the VT PCM is no one knows if its even going to work let alone be able to tune it.

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Re: 202 FE Holden/Delco Conversion

Postby FEBlue202 » Thu Sep 08, 2011 7:22 pm

Further to advice/comment from Holden202, the project appears to be still doable.

It now seems to me that I should take Option 2 of the 3 offered by Holden202 ie.
2. go with an earlier one like VR etc and be able to do what you want alot easier and still retain the features you want.
The overall logic and look for the FE is very similar to the FB Ute project, in most aspects, including wanting to keep original look of dash etc.

Therefore we seem to be on the same page and I now need to get hold of the VR wiring diagrams to see how this will all work.
Meanwhile, should I be taking a course in programming PCMs etc, so I can tune it, or are there experts out there who do that for a living.

Whilst I do more homework (including roaming through this board for clue setc), I will still be looking out for more detail, as I put it together, so all comment is welcome.

Thank you (all) for a your help to date, FEBlue202

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