Vlad's rides thread

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oldn64
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Re: Vlad's rides thread

Post by oldn64 »

vlad01 wrote:Too late now. I never had handling issues with the rear on these unless the bushes were no existent.
Clearly driving in a straight line then :P

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Re: Vlad's rides thread

Post by vlad01 »

No, sideways around corners as with any car I drive.

Actually I can't raise the point as the whole idea of the dog leg bar was to get cruial clearance space for the dual system yet to be fabricated. With a standard bar there wasn't going to be any room, so moving the point up will undo what I am trying to achieve with the dogleg.
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Re: Vlad's rides thread

Post by oldn64 »

vlad01 wrote:No, sideways around corners as with any car I drive.

Actually I can't raise the point as the whole idea of the dog leg bar was to get crucial clearance space for the dual system yet to be fabricated. With a standard bar there wasn't going to be any room, so moving the point up will undo what I am trying to achieve with the dogleg.
I generally run the dogleg backwards and the exhaust under the panhard rod. You actually get better exhaust path and no clearance bang bang issues. Or if you run a vl racecar straight out the side is even better, but road going the police do not like this.. ;)

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Re: Vlad's rides thread

Post by vlad01 »

What about the axle though? you can't go under that with the exhaust, well not easy with it hitting the road. Got to realize we live in Vic, the roads are far better in Africa.

I do have side pipes atm, but that's temporary so I can at least get it drivable.

Anyway something I can look at on the next project, certainly would want to test it on another car first before drilling any holes on my own cars. I would assume this is mainly for very lower cars to help offset the pivot points vs the shifted positions of the suspension side pivot points?
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Re: Vlad's rides thread

Post by oldn64 »

vlad01 wrote:What about the axle though? you can't go under that with the exhaust, well not easy with it hitting the road. Got to realize we live in Vic, the roads are far better in Africa.

ROFL true that.... You place the exhaust high in the diff hump and the exhuast can go between the panhard and the diff. There is enough room. Yes the lower the car th emore the need to raise the panhard pickup, but you can gain alot by raising the panhard as the roll centre raise in teh rear and you take the soggie sponge like setting out of the rear, it alos means you dont need as heavy rear sway bar and that the springs can actually do what they should have been designed for to start with. Alot of my cars dont even have a rear sway bar as the traction advantage is so much better..... but that a complete other story.

I would recommend too getting yourself some FORD XF front disc pads and reshaping them. This will then go straight into your caliper (after a 3mm modification) and give you almost double the pad area and better use os the 290mm rotors you have. You will be able to out break most things and the pad material options are alot more. the pad is actually 30% bigger than a VT pad, and trust me when I say there are alot of VT upgraded early girls who still to this day scratch their heads as to how I can out break them at Sandown, winton and Philip Island.

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Re: Vlad's rides thread

Post by vlad01 »

Interesting, don't know what you mean by soggy rear? all mines are very sharp and twitch at the rear and quite harsh just they way I like them be, but it's been years since I has a car with stock rubber bushes, the race spec superpro bushes I use makes the suspension very responsive and sharp. The bushes honestly in my experience account in 60-80% of the improvement in the setup. This is why I have gone to Bilestein and huge swaybars this time to try get similar gains over on top the bushes , because more run of the mill sports springs and shocks, swaybar mods have done jack compared to stock suspension with these bushes.


Interesting idea on the brakes. I purposely built mine like this so I have better lineal brake control. I have the same combo of material and rotor size and type and smaller MC with dual booster on the VR and it way outdoes the 235 sports tyres, I can lock them so easy. So I may have to find better yet again tyres for that car to even utilize the standard sized brakes.

So with the track spec tyres on this car it may finally be a good match to the brakes, if not I will look at larger front but to be honest I doubt I will need bigger ones. I found years ago the perfect rotor/pad compound combo that gives the same braking performance of a VY/VZ with performance pads and rotors but still being stock size and thus quite a few Kg lighter, less up sprung weight is a good thing on dodgy ass vic roads.
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Re: Vlad's rides thread

Post by vlad01 »

Good bit of info here.

As always, it's no one setting better than another. Many pros and cons that is compromised between the different setups and is quite a complicated relationship.

In fact the lower position should favor the type of driving conditions I mainly face, tight windy roads rather than high speed corners. More like hillclimb roads vs typical track situations. I am very much preferenced towards the first that's for sure. But will be good to do come calcs and measurements based on the as is geometry the car ends up being once fully laden which is looking not so lowered as I first thought.

http://kb.fmiracing.com/caster-camber-s ... -explained



Also I just worked out the bar is dog legged for a reason other than exhaust clearance. It's to keep the angle of the bar as level as possible with the axle so the there is less jacking/lifting loads on the right tyre under lateral load transfers. So this means the jacking/lifting effect should be minimized and give move even load transfers from left/right vise versa.

I found a thing called J bars which is basically a more extreme case of a curved panhard bar sold to speedway for setups that require this need. So this should have an interesting effect on rear handling if I got this correct. :think:
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Re: Vlad's rides thread

Post by Gareth »

Watts link...
According to chemistry, alcohol is a solution...
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Re: Vlad's rides thread

Post by immortality »

Biggvl wrote:Watts link...
Adjustable Watts link...
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Re: Vlad's rides thread

Post by oldn64 »

vlad01 wrote:Interesting, don't know what you mean by soggy rear? all mines are very sharp and twitch at the rear and quite harsh just they way I like them be, but it's been years since I has a car with stock rubber bushes, the race spec superpro bushes I use makes the suspension very responsive and sharp. The bushes honestly in my experience account in 60-80% of the improvement in the setup. This is why I have gone to Bilestein and huge swaybars this time to try get similar gains over on top the bushes , because more run of the mill sports springs and shocks, swaybar mods have done jack compared to stock suspension with these bushes.


Interesting idea on the brakes. I purposely built mine like this so I have better lineal brake control. I have the same combo of material and rotor size and type and smaller MC with dual booster on the VR and it way outdoes the 235 sports tyres, I can lock them so easy. So I may have to find better yet again tyres for that car to even utilize the standard sized brakes.

So with the track spec tyres on this car it may finally be a good match to the brakes, if not I will look at larger front but to be honest I doubt I will need bigger ones. I found years ago the perfect rotor/pad compound combo that gives the same braking performance of a VY/VZ with performance pads and rotors but still being stock size and thus quite a few Kg lighter, less up sprung weight is a good thing on dodgy ass vic roads.
Yes the VL Race car runs a higher roll centre rear, no rear sway bar and the standard 15/16 Master. The brakes pad are forza's and are allowed in production car classes. The XF/G pad has almost the same backing as the commodore one but it covers more the disc and there last longer and can deal with repeated stops (ie more friction material means more repeated he speed stops.) I used to run the QFM AR1m pads which were brilliant compared to anything else I ran but the Forza's make the AR1m's feel like compressed cardboard. Bonus too I have a great pedal feel. Infact the next mod is to remove the booster completely.

Race car has 245/45R18 semi slicks on it (which I use on the VY racer car when I take that out although it need some TLC now) The size is currently only held back by the rims size and I really need at least 265's under her, but this will happen once I have ordered the new rims. Would love 295's but the rear tubs will not accommodate them 275's would be about max but no ones makes a semi slick in this size.

The tyres you have are not a bad compound but you would be looking into a semi slick tyre to go too much more grip and then you will find they will die in approx 8000klms.
Biggvl wrote:Watts link...
immortality wrote:
Biggvl wrote:Watts link...
Adjustable Watts link...
While both of these are great suggestions and do work well the tyre size would not work for me for starters. The reason for this has been that the Watts link keeps the diff centred. If you have actually followed a early girl around you will notice that as is moves in the rear teh inside tyre moves out from under the body work. Without this happening I will get tyre rub as I need the diff to move to have the tyres I do. I have a few pic and video of the inside tyre (left at winton on the sweeper) being a good inch outside the body work. I am one fo the fast people around the sweeper at winton and gather many people up around it. It does get hairy when they freak out for the next corner and the only option left for me is the green track next to the bitumen ;)

The other huge thing is cost to covert, as well as the rule that a I race with and B the engineering required for road use. I just do not think it is practical.

Regards
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