1934 Chevrolet Tudor

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34EV1L
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Re: 1934 Chevrolet Tudor

Post by 34EV1L »

Thanks for the fast reply’s Vlad.

So there is nothing at all in the logs to explain the stalling and hesitation?

I’m hesitant to make any further changes until I can get the car to shift into gear, idle and take off in traffic. Nearly got cleaned up when pulling out of a side street.

The old stock ECM and VN memcal ran perfect idle, take off and everyday drivability. It was just the pinging on wot I was trying to improve.

I really appreciate all the help and understand that a wideband would help refine the tune even further. I just hope there are other options to get the car reliable first.
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vlad01
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Re: 1934 Chevrolet Tudor

Post by vlad01 »

Usually hesitation/stalling is lean spots in the VE table. Without the wideband you are adjusting things blind and can't see what the AFRs are doing. You really need one. The VN memcal might have been rich enough by chance to not cause issues which you mention other than the pinging. If I recall from the youtube videos of ecotec engines running stock VN ECUs, they ran very rich and blew black smoke when revved.

The tune you have probably has a good spark map but VE table is likely not quite right.

I had a similar issue when I ran VN SV3800 tune on my VP many years ago, had a flat spot on hard take off that would stall the car at intersections or traffic lights and that is a factory HSV tune, they were just not done right from factory. It's easy to make that mistake on what you'd think should work for your engine. That's with any base tune that should be checked and adjusted as needed to suit, but to do that you need a wideband at minimum and a dyno for the spark table is a really good idea. But with the spark it's more forgiving if it's been copied from known good factory tune for a non modded factory engine. VE table unfortunately needs to be spot on for an engine to even work properly and safely.
I'm the director of VSH (Vlad's Spec Holden), because HSV were doing it ass about.
34EV1L
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Re: 1934 Chevrolet Tudor

Post by 34EV1L »

Wow I wish someone told me a wideband was necessary before I started all of this. Takes me half a day to pull everything out to get to the ECM.

Would have done it when the car was stripped for the radiator and changed out the coolant temp sensor.

Is it a direct swap the current single o2 sensor stock location and same thread? Do I need to add wiring to the loom?

Just checked and looks like none in stock either. Guess I just have to swap back to stock ECM/memcal and call it a day for the time being.

If anyone has one, let me know. Pretty gutted right now. :cry:
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vlad01
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Re: 1934 Chevrolet Tudor

Post by vlad01 »

When I did my harness I combined the standad o2 ground with the low noise ground (as it's a floating ground) and then added a 2nd ground for the wideband heater ground and that went on the noisy ground and added power taped from the injector supply line. Then I ran a separate wideband input wire to the WB input on the ECU. I kept that as a separate connector and the other 4 wires I added the early GM 4 wire o2 sensor plug so that when the wideband was no longer used I could install a VS-VT style 4 wire o2 in it's place.

The wideband had 5 wires.

0-5V analog output
narrow band simulated output
sensor/ECU ground (this is why the stock VN o2 ground needs to be combined with a low noise ECU ground, the WB won't power it's controller otherwise)
12V power
heater ground
I'm the director of VSH (Vlad's Spec Holden), because HSV were doing it ass about.
34EV1L
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Re: 1934 Chevrolet Tudor

Post by 34EV1L »

Thanks for the reply. So not a straight forward changeover.

I don't really want to run an external guage and been doing some more research. Would I be able to use a Bosch LSU4.2 or LSU4.9 sensor into the 808 as they are available? Any other sensors worth looking at?

Another thought, could I just go to a Dyno and run an external wideband in the exaust?

Once the tune is right, I'm not going to be fiddling with it again.
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vlad01
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Re: 1934 Chevrolet Tudor

Post by vlad01 »

You need a wideband sensor and controller as a kit. 14Point7 do the spartan 2 kit but Gareth on here sells the controller with a genuine LSU4.9.

No need for a gauge, I never used a gauge in all my tuning years, I find them useless anyway. TunerPro shows live wideband and tuning is pretty easy. You just log or live generate the new VE table in the calcVE histogram panel in TunerPro. It takes data from the old VE and the wideband to calc the new VE in the histogram. Then you copy over the new cells over the old ones in the VE, save and upload to the ECU and repeat the process until you get little to no changes from calcVE and the actual VE table. Takes several goes to really dial it in as it needs lots of cell hits to get a good average and some cells are hard to hit due to being not so common driving conditions.

Auto is also harder than manual for this reason.

The histogram has different modes of viewing the cell data. From counts, to min and max values, averages etc... So with a recorded log you can carefully play back only the bits that generate clean data, like steady state conditions (avoiding decel/accel) and looking at the different modes you can really cherry pick good data. I do this in the later refining stages of the tune.

For the initial ball park I do a warm up and then clear the histogram and drive around as varied and smooth as possible and copy everything when set to history average mode. That will get you in the ball park in one fell swoop.
I'm the director of VSH (Vlad's Spec Holden), because HSV were doing it ass about.
34EV1L
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Re: 1934 Chevrolet Tudor

Post by 34EV1L »

Just a matter of finding one now. Everyone out of stock that I've tried online.

Renders this little project a fail unless anyone has other options to help?
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Re: 1934 Chevrolet Tudor

Post by antus »

My mates have picked up this one and had good success. Seems genuine sensor etc and quality unit. https://www.carmodsaustralia.com.au/x-s ... gauge.html
The 0-5V output is the one you interface to the delco.
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vlad01
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Re: 1934 Chevrolet Tudor

Post by vlad01 »

I heard AEM stuff is pretty good.
I'm the director of VSH (Vlad's Spec Holden), because HSV were doing it ass about.
34EV1L
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Re: 1934 Chevrolet Tudor

Post by 34EV1L »

antus wrote:My mates have picked up this one and had good success. Seems genuine sensor etc and quality unit. https://www.carmodsaustralia.com.au/x-s ... gauge.html
The 0-5V output is the one you interface to the delco.
Grreat, thanks for that. Do these have a narrowband simulated output as well as I was going to replace the stock o2?

I know the Spatan does but couldn't see in the manual if these AEMs were able to.
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