OSE 12P querries and observations.

For discussion and distribution of custom code and hacks
Lawso
Posts: 88
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2010 10:45 pm
cars: VR Ute with VS V6 Getrag driveline
VE SSV Ute
VS Ute
Location: Campbelltown NSW

OSE 12P querries and observations.

Post by Lawso »

After an engine dyno session today, I came away with some questions and observations,

I tried out narrowband VE update. Worked really well, particualrly on the dyno when hitting a load point is easy.

Datalogging was great and easy to use, just wish I could cut and paste from the tunerpro history table...would speed things up a bit as I have made myself a correction spreadsheet for wideband and BLM. Manually copying is not taxing when just doing full throttle stuff, but outside of that is a little cubersome.

Wideband input functioned ok, but there are some scaling issues. More info on this would be handy to try to dial it in a bit better.

Logged RPM showed differently to the dyno's RPM + external tacho. About a 500-700 rpm difference in the datalog verses the dyno/tach. Datalog showed a lower rpm.

Idle was a bit of a problem. Could not get it to idle less than 1200rpm. Seems to be something screwing with the idle fueling. Found that the map threshhold was initially causing be problems ( would not idle at all until I lifted all cells). It's not a huge cam ( 236/236/112) and should have idled pretty easy. In Kalmaker, you enable VCECT which enables the zero throttle and spark tables and igores the map sensor. Also, you can disable IPS ( Idle proportional spark) to stop the spark chasing the fluctuations in a cammy idle. Just thinking to dial in the idle fuel/spark and throttle position first and get the stepper motor doing it's thing before letting fuel and spark corrections loose in there.
I was struggling to identify the functions to stop the spark and fuel chasing idle speed?
Also, is the idle spark advance table active all the time, or only with closed throttle VE enabled?

I need to confrim the knock sensor input pin and settings. I have had a search around the forum for the knock control settings and can't find too much info on it.
The knock sensor was connected to B12 which from memory was where the HSV V8's had their input? I had false knock detection at idle and it decided to rip 6 deg of timing out everywhere. It was like the ecu could not see the knock sensor. I had a genuine HSV memcal with attached to the NVRAM board.

Anyway therese are just my observations and querries from the days's dyno session.
User avatar
delcowizzid
Posts: 5493
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2009 8:38 pm
Location: Wellington NZ
Contact:

Re: OSE 12P querries and observations.

Post by delcowizzid »

everything should work just like kal apart from the correct names are used in 12P LOL and theres not really any bug issues like kal :mrgreen: ips spark etc is all in there(i never turn it off even with huge cams) as is closed throttle VE .the idle spark table is used all the time when in idle mode .is your cam 236 advertised or 0.050" duration
If Its Got Gas Or Ass Count Me In.if it cant be fixed with a hammer you have an electrical problem
kojab
Posts: 440
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:52 am
cars: VT V6 supercharged in a corolla
Location: Sydney
Contact:

Re: OSE 12P querries and observations.

Post by kojab »

Lawso wrote:
I need to confrim the knock sensor input pin and settings. I have had a search around the forum for the knock control settings and can't find too much info on it.
The knock sensor was connected to B12 which from memory was where the HSV V8's had their input? I had false knock detection at idle and it decided to rip 6 deg of timing out everywhere. It was like the ecu could not see the knock sensor. I had a genuine HSV memcal with attached to the NVRAM board.

Anyway therese are just my observations and querries from the days's dyno session.
B11 is the input for the VR/VS HSV V8 and V6 manual ECM.
Lawso
Posts: 88
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2010 10:45 pm
cars: VR Ute with VS V6 Getrag driveline
VE SSV Ute
VS Ute
Location: Campbelltown NSW

Re: OSE 12P querries and observations.

Post by Lawso »

The cam is 290/290 advertised.

I have translated a lot of OSE from Kal, but there still are things that have me scratching my head!
It's all part of the learning curve and so far OSE is delivering the goods, just need to learn more about it. I will probably be asking more questions....

Ironically, I disabled Closed VE and it idled better! It may be that I hadn't bothered too much with the main VE main around idle as I was expecting the closed VE to do the job, I have tidied it up and as the engine is still sitting on the dyno, I might have another crack at the idle again in the morning.(too be honest, I was more interested in the top end today!) It would be nice to put the engine it the car and hit the key and drive.

Thanks Jojab, I'll change the pin and renable the knock sensing tomorrow and see what happens.

I have attached a log of a couple of the dyno runs, at the end of the first one you will see the engine try to idle then stall.

Oh, the wideband is a bit wobbly... AFR's were set using the dyno's wideband as the logged data wasn't the best.
Attachments
OSE_$12P_v1.09_1BAR_Wideband.adx
(80.02 KiB) Downloaded 357 times
my355_10.zip
(38.1 KiB) Downloaded 399 times
User avatar
VL400
Posts: 4991
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 2:54 pm
cars: VL Calais and Toyota Landcruiser. Plus some toys :)
Location: Perth, WA
Contact:

Re: OSE 12P querries and observations.

Post by VL400 »

Lawso wrote:Wideband input functioned ok, but there are some scaling issues. More info on this would be handy to try to dial it in a bit better.
The setup for WB is only the 0v AFR and the 5v AFR points in the cal. It then calculates the AFR in the normal AFR*10 that target AFR is (so in terms of what the ECU uses 0 AFR to 25.5AFR). So in the ADX the wideband value should be using the conversion X/10. What wideband are you using and what are your 0v and 5v analog output set to? It must also use a wideband with a linear output.

Lawso wrote:Logged RPM showed differently to the dyno's RPM + external tacho. About a 500-700 rpm difference in the datalog verses the dyno/tach. Datalog showed a lower rpm.
Not sure on this one, there is not much software control of the RPM calc. The V8 has no scaling at all and just reads the 65khz counter, does a simple divide and gets the RPM value. On the bench its pretty bloody close to actual RPM if simulating a reference signal.
Lawso wrote:Idle was a bit of a problem. Could not get it to idle less than 1200rpm. Seems to be something screwing with the idle fueling. Found that the map threshhold was initially causing be problems ( would not idle at all until I lifted all cells). It's not a huge cam ( 236/236/112) and should have idled pretty easy. In Kalmaker, you enable VCECT which enables the zero throttle and spark tables and igores the map sensor. Also, you can disable IPS ( Idle proportional spark) to stop the spark chasing the fluctuations in a cammy idle. Just thinking to dial in the idle fuel/spark and throttle position first and get the stepper motor doing it's thing before letting fuel and spark corrections loose in there.
I was struggling to identify the functions to stop the spark and fuel chasing idle speed?
Can turn off idle prop spark using "IAC - Idle spark Adjustment params - IAC spark correct'n lower coolant threshold" and can stop the fuel adjustment using "Idle Fuel Param - RPM above desired to begin Lowspeed enrichment multiplier". VE closed throttle should work similar to kal i think, anytime the throttle is closed it uses the table. Although there are bugs with the kal SP3 closed throttle I think, read somwhere about an RPM offset issue.


Lawso wrote:Also, is the idle spark advance table active all the time, or only with closed throttle VE enabled?
Whenever the idle flag is set your using the idle spark advance table. So once the vehicle is at rest (or very low speed) and closed throttle.
User avatar
delcowizzid
Posts: 5493
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2009 8:38 pm
Location: Wellington NZ
Contact:

Re: OSE 12P querries and observations.

Post by delcowizzid »

if your wideband is correct its never going to idle at 14:1 fuel ratio with that huge cam gonna be down in the 12-13:1 area probably with the amount of overlap it has .how far have you modified the tune as its not got much timing in it at cruise rpm low tps either maybe the kncok sensor was just pulling heaps of timing out with no sensor connected they do that
If Its Got Gas Or Ass Count Me In.if it cant be fixed with a hammer you have an electrical problem
User avatar
Holden202T
Posts: 10311
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2009 9:05 pm
Location: Tenambit, NSW
Contact:

Re: OSE 12P querries and observations.

Post by Holden202T »

gotta agree, you should be able to get that cam idling 900-1000rpm with enough fuel in it at idle .... i've found mid to low 13's work well and a bit more timing than stock too at idle!
UCMatt
Posts: 86
Joined: Mon May 11, 2009 4:00 pm
cars: VE Sportwagon
VYExec
VN V8 UC Torana Hatch

Re: OSE 12P querries and observations.

Post by UCMatt »

Idle can be difficult to setup on an engine dyno at times. Some of the Superflow water brake dyno's, depending on how they are plumbed (pressure fed as opposed to suction) can place significantly more load on the engine than normal idle situations would see. You could be chasing your tail trying to sort idle on the dyno.
I would wait until it is in the car to worry about this one.

It sounds like your OSE 12P experience has been a good one!
User avatar
VL400
Posts: 4991
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 2:54 pm
cars: VL Calais and Toyota Landcruiser. Plus some toys :)
Location: Perth, WA
Contact:

Re: OSE 12P querries and observations.

Post by VL400 »

Just doing some testing of the wideband input, the cal is meant to be set for the Innovate output by default but looks like I have botched it - the 0v is fine but the 5v is set to 23.4 when it should be 22.4. Might be the source of your AFR being off if you have not adjusted it and using an Innovate wideband.


Anyway, some test results (Wideband voltage is the simulated analog out from a wideband)...

Code: Select all

Wideband Voltage           Calc'd AFR          TP Display AFR
2.11                        14.09                 14.10
1.56                        12.32                 12.30
2.63                        15.77                 15.80
4.30                        21.15                 21.20
0.76                        9.75                   9.80
The ECU can only read to one decimal place due to having only an 8bit value with X/10 as the conversion.
User avatar
Holden202T
Posts: 10311
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2009 9:05 pm
Location: Tenambit, NSW
Contact:

Re: OSE 12P querries and observations.

Post by Holden202T »

i thought my new innovate gauge was reading slightly out to the tp5 gauge, that was my issue, its 23.4 in my bin :P
Post Reply