Traction control with a 424 PCM

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Holden202T
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Re: Traction control with a 424 PCM

Post by Holden202T »

Biggvl wrote:No, thats old ideas on how to overcome a car that doesn't handle :) The car setup and driving technique used are a more modern approach to sedan racing.
that's good then as that would be something you'd probably have to shit can to use a traction system.
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VL400
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Re: Traction control with a 424 PCM

Post by VL400 »

In a straight line it would be possible without too much effort, add the corners in there (and on dirt) and its going to take a number of inputs, a huge amount of code and calcs (this is where its all at) and then many many laps to cal the system. You will need a track in your backyard, which will then be totally different and nothing like the tracks you go to race on :lol:

As far as the PCM goes a small bit of code could be added to use an analog input that retards timing by a % based on the voltage. Or better yet, combine the fast reacting PCM spark retard with an electronic throttle body so you can control power without high EGTs and still have a reasonable recovery using spark to ramp power back in.

As totally awesome as this would be, its a massive task and is going to take a shit ton of spare time! :comp:
jay woo
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Re: Traction control with a 424 PCM

Post by jay woo »

Would it work using a a table with rpm on one axis and speed on another. if the rate of engine rpm change is greater than the value listed then retard the timing a set amount. This could be quite brutal and probable only works in extreme cases. Timing changes would be the most rapid reduction in torque.
MAGP
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Re: Traction control with a 424 PCM

Post by MAGP »

Unless you took the speed from a non driven wheel (i.e. front) the speed would still match the engine revs/gearing.
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Gareth
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Re: Traction control with a 424 PCM

Post by Gareth »

VL400 wrote:In a straight line it would be possible without too much effort, add the corners in there (and on dirt) and its going to take a number of inputs, a huge amount of code and calcs (this is where its all at) and then many many laps to cal the system. You will need a track in your backyard, which will then be totally different and nothing like the tracks you go to race on :lol:

As far as the PCM goes a small bit of code could be added to use an analog input that retards timing by a % based on the voltage. Or better yet, combine the fast reacting PCM spark retard with an electronic throttle body so you can control power without high EGTs and still have a reasonable recovery using spark to ramp power back in.

As totally awesome as this would be, its a massive task and is going to take a shit ton of spare time! :comp:
Thanks for that VL400, that answered most of my questions, so from that I take it the easy answer would be to do an LS1 PCM and throttle body conversion and run VX ABS (with traction) bummer...
According to chemistry, alcohol is a solution...
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Gareth
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Re: Traction control with a 424 PCM

Post by Gareth »

According to chemistry, alcohol is a solution...
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Re: Traction control with a 424 PCM

Post by psyolent »

hey.........i can chase up a friend of mine doing a TR7 with 1UZ - he was adding early toyota traction control to it - which was largely analog IIRC - if thats of any use to you bigg g - let me know. in some way shape or form something like that could send a signal to an extra input on your 424 which could then activate a a slight ignition cut or whatever you need?

i hate with a passion my traction control in the VX. so if you adopt something from that era you'll want to detune it so it doesn't strangle the car entirely because in speedway you would certainly die if it came on. whenever the flaming traction control kicks in on in the VX its like the whole fucking car dies, like its been switched off, then starts again - its actually dangerous, i'd rather wheel spin/slip TBH and drive out of it.
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Re: Traction control with a 424 PCM

Post by vlad01 »

same with the shitbox dualis company car, literally nose dives if it gets a slight loss of traction and then boats about when it regains its massive sub 100kw egg beater engine with laggy as fuck dbw.

I turn the traction control off but the button is a lie as it only tames it a bit, like 60% of the traction control, it still remains and it actually caused me to loose control a few times when I first was driving it as it cut the engine on turns which caused a sudden understeer that halfway turned into a snap oversteer. stupid fwd! very bad mix of incompatible systems and car design.
I'm the director of VSH (Vlad's Spec Holden), because HSV were doing it ass about.
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VL400
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Re: Traction control with a 424 PCM

Post by VL400 »

psyolent wrote:hey.........i can chase up a friend of mine doing a TR7 with 1UZ - he was adding early toyota traction control to it - which was largely analog IIRC - if thats of any use to you bigg g - let me know. in some way shape or form something like that could send a signal to an extra input on your 424 which could then activate a a slight ignition cut or whatever you need?
That system uses a second throttle plate that is stepper motor controlled in front of the cable operated one. There is also possibly an interface to retard timing/torque to the PCM but have not got the diagrams handy to check that. If its a nice standalone system it may work well, not sure how smooth it is compared to other factory systems.
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Re: Traction control with a 424 PCM

Post by buzzard »

Put the rear sensor on the tailshaft/diff yoke. Single front sensor on preferred wheel. Input to cancel TC if foot is on brake (unless you left foot brake and may not matter if you do) . Use hall effect sensors to simplify the conditioning circuitry. Box with wheel speed comparator (front/rear). Knob to allow a % of slip (you don't want no slip, desired slip % will vary with track conditions). I cant build it for you, but perhaps you know someone who can help.

I am on a Midget team, we don't have too much traction issues.

Regards,Chris
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