202 Turbo Tuning Gremlins - Cleanup Help

General Tuning Questions And Discussions
FXST02
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Re: 202 Turbo Tuning Gremlins - Cleanup Help

Post by FXST02 »

RedWagonVC wrote:
Dylan wrote:Closed loop idle is only speed control, not fuel related
Ok thanks for that Dylan

Something that is strange (that i had put down to what i thought was closed loop making changes) is that i can change the VE in the idle cells fairly aggressively, but the resultant AFR seems to not really react at all. It is off by quite a bit from target, but it will still shift as the target shifts.
Check the idle AFR vs coolant temperature table
Dylan
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Re: 202 Turbo Tuning Gremlins - Cleanup Help

Post by Dylan »

Thats correct I may not if been clear enough.
Closed loop idle targets a different AFR.
RedWagonVC
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Re: 202 Turbo Tuning Gremlins - Cleanup Help

Post by RedWagonVC »

Wouldnt the target AFR in the monitors be the effective target AFR, whether than be idle vs coolant temp, main target afr table or any other?
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Holden202T
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Re: 202 Turbo Tuning Gremlins - Cleanup Help

Post by Holden202T »

that's correct, in as much as its what the ecu is commanding, target AFR will change to a richer value as it moves from open loop AFR table to the Idle AFR table.

you can see in the example below, after a rev at 6:53 it comes back to idle and then 5 seconds later the idle AFR goes from 6.0 to 5.7 (methanol)
idle afr.jpg
RedWagonVC
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Re: 202 Turbo Tuning Gremlins - Cleanup Help

Post by RedWagonVC »

So we figured out that .038 was too low - we hit 100% VE and had to change the inj rate again. Settled on .0445
But when i changed the injector rate i also reset the ms offset and batt volt offsets to the stock V6 (ms) and suggested batt offsets in the link in an earlier comment here, which resulted in a rich idle no matter what the VE was set to.

I figured it must be the minimum injector pulse width for the settings, and confirmed this by lowering the batt and ms offsets (was able to lean up the idle that way)

I've done some manual smoothing out of the VE after some initial driving and calcVE (i extended it up to 200kpa), and i made an excel calculator that allows me to dump the current tables, calcVE tables and choose minimum sample count and % of difference in VE to apply.
I turned Ve learn back on and i need to do alot more driving, but things are getting better i think - though i will say we pretty much are in the same spot we were in with the .0650 inj rate to begin with as it hasnt really been easier to get a stable idle and sort out the jerky low speed low throttle cruising

Attached are the current bin, log with alot of full throttle (bin at log time was pre smooth out) and the spreadsheet i made yesterday in case it's of use for anyone else
Attachments
17-11-17 inj rate change - VE 3 WOT ALOT.xdl
(390.91 KiB) Downloaded 276 times
20-11-17 Offline VE smooth DB.bin
(32 KiB) Downloaded 265 times
VEcalc full table with highlight - sample threshold and percent change.xlsx
(40.42 KiB) Downloaded 258 times
RedWagonVC
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Re: 202 Turbo Tuning Gremlins - Cleanup Help

Post by RedWagonVC »

I should mention it is logging codes 19 and 45

TPS stuck i think might be legit, as I can see in one of the logs that TPS% goes to 0 while TPS voltage stays high and slowly rolls back (is that what actual TPS stuck looks like!?)
Rich code sets at idle usually after driving for a while and i think is related to the inj offsets - closed loop is unable to compensate for rich condition because VE changes below a certain level still result in the same minimum pulse width, perhaps

Holden202t - out of interest do you have a lightened flywheel on your 202? it looks like it revs up pretty quickly from those stabs to the throttle
VK_3800
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Re: 202 Turbo Tuning Gremlins - Cleanup Help

Post by VK_3800 »

Have you tried setting single fire mode? I found it helped me reduce fuel enough for a better idle, but the switch to/from dual fire won't be good if you don't have the right injector bias.
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antus
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Re: 202 Turbo Tuning Gremlins - Cleanup Help

Post by antus »

If youve got a tps fail it'll generate tps from rpm. Use tps volts to see whats going on there. It'll drive a lot worse without working tps.
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Gareth
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Re: 202 Turbo Tuning Gremlins - Cleanup Help

Post by Gareth »

Is it running the V6 throttle body? If so it is important to be sure that the little plastic cap is still on the throttle shaft that drives the tps
According to chemistry, alcohol is a solution...
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Holden202T
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Re: 202 Turbo Tuning Gremlins - Cleanup Help

Post by Holden202T »

RedWagonVC wrote:Holden202t - out of interest do you have a lightened flywheel on your 202? it looks like it revs up pretty quickly from those stabs to the throttle
just a heavy duty flex plate and an 8 inch converter....
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