202 Turbo Tuning Gremlins - Cleanup Help

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RedWagonVC
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Re: 202 Turbo Tuning Gremlins - Cleanup Help

Post by RedWagonVC »

This may be a silly question - but which way am i offsetting the VE tables? ie value x 0.58 or value x 1.58?
VK_3800
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Re: 202 Turbo Tuning Gremlins - Cleanup Help

Post by VK_3800 »

Reducing the injector rate number indicates that it takes less time to deliver the same amount of fuel, i.e. injectors are bigger. All else being equal this will cause the pulse width to be reduced to maintain the same fuel delivery as before, leaning it out.

So the VE would need to be increased to compensate since you haven't actually changed injectors. And... since that 58% is in the other direction (0.038 / 0.065) you need to divide by 0.58 (or multiply by 1 / 0.58 = 1.71, i.e. same as 0.065 / 0.038).
RedWagonVC
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Re: 202 Turbo Tuning Gremlins - Cleanup Help

Post by RedWagonVC »

Ignore that last comment, trial and error tells me 'upward'

Ok so I matched spark idle and main table, changed the injector rate plus batt volt offsets and also reset the inj ms offset table to std V6 bin values.

Turned off VE learn, lean cruise and closed loop plus closed loop idle-
Funnily though closed loop idle still says 'set' on the dashboard, cant get rid of it.

I played with VE values and AFR target for idle but even drastic changes seemed to result still at about 12.7afr, at new 13.3 requesting
After abit of experimentation i think it's a bit more stable at idle now, but not much.

I've just finished adding 42% fuel off boost and 45% on boost, and applying a short VE calc to the 20-100kpa table plus some basic smoothing.

I will go for a short drive and idle soon and then repost the new bin and xdl for more feedback.

I made significant changes to the spark tables including charge temp offset in the bin too, as I cant help think that it was no good
RedWagonVC
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Re: 202 Turbo Tuning Gremlins - Cleanup Help

Post by RedWagonVC »

VK_3800 sorry hadnt refreshed the thread before replying again.
I ended up adding 42-45% to VE for some feedback for these reasons:

-I did a breif drive watching AFRs closely pre-change and the VE calc table values for most cells were lookking around 40% higher
-I applied x1.58 to the table then overlaid the VE calc values and the x1.58 values looked too high
-i figured maybe the change needed to be the inverse of 58% (42%) and applied that instead
And everything looked more in place with the VE calc

I could be wrong but easy enough to have a drive around and check on wideband
Dylan
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Re: 202 Turbo Tuning Gremlins - Cleanup Help

Post by Dylan »

Closed loop idle is only speed control, not fuel related
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Holden202T
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Re: 202 Turbo Tuning Gremlins - Cleanup Help

Post by Holden202T »

sounds like your heading in the right direction, just get ve calc to do the work for you at light load areas, then offset and re-test, if you find you increase the VE another 10% at light load, then i'd apply that or even 15% to the high load areas to make sure its on the safe side, then gradually creep up on load into light boost and see what the numbers look like, if it goes too lean just back out and increase .....

provided the injector rate is right the rest should come into line with time.... if you find the VE table highest value is at 100, then you'll need to drop the whole ve table by 10-15% and increase injector rate the same ..... this is where the fudge factor starts to come into it .... but as long as the min and max VE values are in the table range your ok with injector rate usually.
RedWagonVC
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Re: 202 Turbo Tuning Gremlins - Cleanup Help

Post by RedWagonVC »

Thanks for the help so far people. Here is the latest copy of the bin which includes some more VE calc data.
Holden202t - is there a VEcalc boost history table? Or is this a 2 man live-tuning job only?

Everything looks pretty close considering that changes made - i've also attached the latest log (keep in mind the VE calc in the log has already been applied to the bin, except some cells which i suspect were transient/AE/DE/a bad idea to put in)

I think i'll need to lean out the boost areas a bit, but it looks to be fitting neatly under 100% VE so far
I did notice just now though that DTC 41 - IGN EST Circuit has set today at some point

EDIT - I just noticed that because my maximum value for range in VE tables used to be 75 and i didnt change the boost table to 100 - there was not enough VE% in the boost map while logging and you will see VE stuck at 77 anything over 100kpa - i have fixed this
Attachments
15-11-17 038 inj after VE adjustment drive.xdl
(915.35 KiB) Downloaded 249 times
15-11-17 AFTER 42-45percent fuel added and short VEcalc integration 038 inj.bin
(32 KiB) Downloaded 268 times
Last edited by RedWagonVC on Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
RedWagonVC
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Re: 202 Turbo Tuning Gremlins - Cleanup Help

Post by RedWagonVC »

I'd appreciate if i could get some feedback on the spark tables from some who have tuned turbo also fellas.
Notably feedback on the changes i made in the last bin ^ compared to the first bin. Be sure to observe the charge temp and coolant temp offset table differences along with the main spark tables and you'll probably pick up on why the big decrease in the new bin.

I don't know which is better but i feel like i was right to make the changes from what i understand
RedWagonVC
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Re: 202 Turbo Tuning Gremlins - Cleanup Help

Post by RedWagonVC »

Dylan wrote:Closed loop idle is only speed control, not fuel related
Ok thanks for that Dylan

Something that is strange (that i had put down to what i thought was closed loop making changes) is that i can change the VE in the idle cells fairly aggressively, but the resultand AFR seems to not really react at all. It is off by quite a bit from target, but it will still shift as the target shifts.
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Holden202T
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Re: 202 Turbo Tuning Gremlins - Cleanup Help

Post by Holden202T »

RedWagonVC wrote:Holden202t - is there a VEcalc boost history table? Or is this a 2 man live-tuning job only?
Edit the ADX and either create a new history table, or like I did, change the BLM/wideband table to use calcve instead of ltft - its setup for up to 200/300kpa depending what map your using.
calcve.jpg
calcve.jpg (317.72 KiB) Viewed 4649 times
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