Introduction. 202 red conversion to ITB manifold questions.

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Early 56 EFI
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Re: Introduction. 202 red conversion to ITB manifold questi

Post by Early 56 EFI »

Interesting couple of days.
Have managed to get the thing running if you could call it that. Had to reposition the TPS so that it was outputting meaningful volts. Now 0.2 volts at 0% throttle and 3.04V at 100% throttle but TP5 still only showing 91.2% when the throttle bodies are to 100%. Still trying to work out how to solve that, I thought there might have been a calibration table somewhere but cannot seem to fine one. It's very rich, especially when the throttle is blipped and the logs show the spark advance looking a bit like a saw tooth. At least it starts and runs but will not idle. I cannot expect too mush at the moment as I don't have MAP or IAC connected. Have ordered a MAP sensor to see what that does even if it is not ideal on ITB's

I would like to run it in Alpha-N but cannot seem to find much information on how to set it up. Is it as simple as hacking the VE 20-100kPa table and making VE a function of TPS (volts or %) and RPM instead of MAP and RPM. If so do I have to do anything to tie the TPS settings into the other tables instead of MAP.

A few problems.
Being able to start it and run it is very unreliable. Sometimes it starts up no problems and other times just won't start at all. When it will not start there is heaps of spark but the injectors aren't firing at all so no fuel which is also obvious by looking straight down the throttle bodies. Then later, without changing anything, it just fires up. Got me stumped.
I've also had a lot of trouble connection to TP5. Most times I get the pop up box with the 8 or so reasons why it hasn't connected. The Flashtool also has some problems but is more reliable that TP5. I suspect my HP laptop and have reloaded the USB drivers but hasn't really improved. I feel there is a conflict in the laptop but haven't found it yet. Also going to have a go on another laptop if I can borrow one.

The ECU seems to be working fine as the pump prime on ignition ON works and the blue led on the NVRam is on and goes off a couple of seconds after ignition OFF. When put into diagnostic mode the check light is flashing as expected.

From what I have read, I gather it should run with the 4 pin connector removed from the BIM146 module. In fact it won't even start, again plenty of spark on crank, (coil HT connected to a plug sitting on the chassis) but again no injector pulsing (led across one of the injectors) Please confirm if it should run with the connector out.

I have the RW link on the NVRam off so it is impossible for me to change the cal by mistake in that state hey ???? Yes or No

All good fun and a great learning curve. I'm thinking it should be good fun when I get the stroker motor rebuilt with the YT Ally head, cam etc and plonk it in the Early.

Geoff
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Re: Introduction. 202 red conversion to ITB manifold questi

Post by vlad01 »

My understanding is alpha N should be just a flag which forces the default map mode which is what the ECU uses to infer the map when then actual map sensor fails.

So if I am not mistaken you should be able to tune the VE table with alpha N enabled as normal? But I have no clue what settings fine tune the map inferencing.

As for the injector not firing, sounds like an issue with ref signal to the ECU.
I'm the director of VSH (Vlad's Spec Holden), because HSV were doing it ass about.
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Re: Introduction. 202 red conversion to ITB manifold questi

Post by Early 56 EFI »

vlad01 wrote:My understanding is alpha N should be just a flag which forces the default map mode which is what the ECU uses to infer the map when then actual map sensor fails.

So if I am not mistaken you should be able to tune the VE table with alpha N enabled as normal? But I have no clue what settings fine tune the map inferencing.

As for the injector not firing, sounds like an issue with ref signal to the ECU.
Thanks Vlad, I will do more searching. Re the reference signal, is that ref signal from the BIM module to B5 on the ECU. I will check the wiring out.
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Re: Introduction. 202 red conversion to ITB manifold questi

Post by Early 56 EFI »

Early 56 EFI wrote:
vlad01 wrote:My understanding is alpha N should be just a flag which forces the default map mode which is what the ECU uses to infer the map when then actual map sensor fails.

So if I am not mistaken you should be able to tune the VE table with alpha N enabled as normal? But I have no clue what settings fine tune the map inferencing.

As for the injector not firing, sounds like an issue with ref signal to the ECU.
Thanks Vlad, I will do more searching. Re the reference signal, is that ref signal from the BIM module to B5 on the ECU. I will check the wiring out.
Found the Alpha-N Flag, will give it a go.
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Re: Introduction. 202 red conversion to ITB manifold questi

Post by Early 56 EFI »

Still having problems reliably connecting to the ECU with either TP5 or the Flashtool. One of the times that it did manage to connect I managed to download the bin from the ECU. I have had the RW jumper unset all the time, the pumps still cycle, the led on the NVRam is on and goes off 2 sec after ign off and the 202 runs but is crap so I assume that the NVram is still all good. The blue led on the comms board is on when the USB is plugged in and when I try to connect with the flashtool the software shows that the TX is polling and the red (TX) led on the comms board is poling (flashing). I have tried different USB cables and checked that all the dotnet 3.5 components are loaded.
When I ordered the NVRam I pointed out that I was going to use it on a 202 but when I opened the downloaded bin in TP5 the spark reference angle is 70 deg and I would have expected to see 10 deg so I assume it has the wrong tune in it (which probably explains why the 202 runs like crap) but I cannot connect to the ECU to update it to the Holden202T base tune for the VK which is believe is what I need.
I think I have an old desktop with XP on it so might have to fish it out and see what happens to at least eliminate the HP laptop.
Anu other suggestions.
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Re: Introduction. 202 red conversion to ITB manifold questi

Post by Early 56 EFI »

An update. Over the weekend I built a Virtual Windows 7 PC on VMware and loaded TP5 and drivers etc and all looked good. This is to just verify that my laptop is not the problem. The Virtual picked up the USB port as com3. I configured TP5 and the Flashtool using this com3 and I still cannot connect to the 808 with either TP5 or the flashtool. Same result, the red Tx red on the coms board is polling in both cases.
I'm starting to think the comms board has cracked it but cannot really believe it. The engine will still start, in a fashion, so I still assume the ECU must be working.
Any Ideas.
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Re: Introduction. 202 red conversion to ITB manifold questi

Post by Early 56 EFI »

Good news. After a lot of stuffing around modifying another 808 and loading different computers and operating systems etc I have concluded that the "A" load in the NVram is corrupt. Just out of interest I switched to the "B" load and bingo, all is fine. Luckily my programmer is good for the Dallas DS1245Y.

During the mean time I have been doing rough tunes by ear and burning 27C512C eproms and have the thing starting great now and running sort of OK. It is still far too rich even at Idle. I have 777 injectors at rail pressure of 40psi and even with the injector rate set at 0.700 it's still too rich. Injectors were out of a S/H V6 VS so I suspect they might be knockoffs and not flowing more than they should be.

As its in an engine frame (not in a car) so I cannot get any load onto it but it's a start.

Question. Will the ECM USB comms board work with a standard memcal in the 808 for logging only or does it have to have the NVRam fitted for it to work.

Now to work out the emulator side of the tunerpro etc.
VK engine in frame R.JPG
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Re: Introduction. 202 red conversion to ITB manifold questi

Post by Charlescrown »

I have never used nvram but I am sure the coms board was originally designed for a standard memcal. Just can't change on the fly. Man that sucker sure can breath with that setup. That engine stand looks very much like one from a TAFE college.
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Re: Introduction. 202 red conversion to ITB manifold questi

Post by vlad01 »

As long as the standard memcal has a large enough eeprom with 12P loaded the comms will log fine, just that you can't make changes without reprogramming the eeprom each time with a burner.
I'm the director of VSH (Vlad's Spec Holden), because HSV were doing it ass about.
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Re: Introduction. 202 red conversion to ITB manifold questi

Post by Early 56 EFI »

Charlescrown wrote:I have never used nvram but I am sure the coms board was originally designed for a standard memcal. Just can't change on the fly. Man that sucker sure can breath with that setup. That engine stand looks very much like one from a TAFE college.
No not from a TAFE, just build at home from bits and pieces to suit the requirements.
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