NVRAM 1st use help

EPROM EEPROM SRAM NVRAM Flash chips, reading/writing hardware and software
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NVRAM 1st use help

Postby L67VSTY » Sat Apr 28, 2018 12:19 am

HI All

This may be lengthy but I don't know where to start so will number the points if anyone can help out with any point would be much appreciated. After not being able to work out how to use the PCM NVRAM I have to ask for some basic help please, although it is running nicely in the car now after having to re burn the bin file due to it not working.

Vehicle details

VT L67 with PCM NVRAM, using Tuner Pro RT, THE 1s Enhanced Bin file and XDF VT_SC_$A5G_Enhanced_v1.3 / ADX VT_SC_$A5G_Enhanced_v1.3.

1) How and when do I save any changes to the NVRAM is it while the engine is running or not ? I am confused by the following notes RT Tunerpro Realtime Tuning guide note - states "Calibration Uploading while engine is running or datalogging is connected will likely corrupt the NVRAM" but the real time buttons information states "Realtime buttons - Blue chip button changes are instant & live".

2) How do I know the difference in Tuner Pro RT if I am saving a bin file or a Cal file as I can only see Bin file and no mention of Cal file?

3) Using the notes "Basic Tuning of a Delco ECM with $12P" for a guide I would like to try the single person tuning ie data logging & making the changes but I can't find any info on what the correct process is of saving the changes correctly & uploading with the NVRAM, Do I disconnect from the vehicle & then view data log but I don't know if it should be with the realtime buttons which I think are disconnected at that point, Do I need to download the Cal file each time while still having the vehicle running & can I save a Cal file before I change it in case something goes wrong and can I reinstall the previous cal file & start again.

4) When I go into the data log using the XDF & ADX at the top the of the page the drop down menu doesn't have BLM as an option in the History Table I was going to use this to start tuning from as stated in "Basic Tuning of a Delco ECM with $12P" is there a way to make this appear or am I doing something wrong?

5) To start with the fuel tuning I found the following post

Re: first tune The 1's enhanced help
Postby The1 » Sun Dec 14, 2014 5:40 pm
it's a MAF based system not MAP, so it's a injector multiplier table not VE for fuel tuning

after not finding a VE table I can see 2 tables "Injector rate constant Vs mg/cyl Vs RPM" & "Injector rate constant Vs mg/cyl Vs RPM 850-1650mg" is it one of these that I make the change to 1st and any help on the sequence to follow through to spark table etc I don't really know & was going to follow the steps in "Basic Tuning of a Delco ECM with $12P" but it appears that for my Vehicle the table names do not match. Also would the VE
Table calculator spreadsheet work with these tables if they are the correct ones or is there another one to use?

Looking forward to finally making some changes.

Cheers

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Re: NVRAM 1st use help

Postby Holden202T » Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:24 am

1. i believe this is saying uploading the entire calibration could cause it to corrupt, however uploading minor changes as you go is not the same thing.

2. you can always give it a name like mytune.cal.bin if you want to know ..... otherwise the easy way to tell is by file size.

3. how i would normally do this is go for a drive and data log the whole thing, then when you get home, use the flashtool to get bin/cal then disconnect from the car and take the laptop inside, then go through the histograms etc, make changes from that to your latest bin/cal file and then go back to the car, ignition on, and then upload the cal with the flashtool. As far as saving the files go, i normally start with a stock tune, create a folder for the person/car and then put the stock bin file in there, then make changes i know need to be done before i start, like injector sizes, map sensors, fan settings etc, then i SAVE AS - "2018-04-28 - mytune - injector-fan settings.bin" .... or something similar, then go and upload that to the car, then datalog/change and SAVE AS again to a new date/file name .... this way you should always be able to go back to the previous file that you know worked in the car if you fuck something up.
Also dont forget if you make changes in realtime directly to the PCM, make sure you suck the tune out before you go and change anything offline ...

4. the only items that will appear in the pull down menu for the history tables are ones that have been manually created in the ADX .... so you would need to create your own one if the one you are looking for is not there. Also for example if there is a history table of wideband readings you can edit the ADX and change the wideband output to BLM's and then it will log that instead of wideband ..... you can also re-play logs with one sensor then change it and re-play again with another sensor if you wish.

So here i have changed the wideband history table to use the blm readings (Output (Z) object).

history change.jpg
history change.jpg (86.02 KiB) Viewed 1824 times

5. you cant use the tuning guide for this part of the tune, if there isn't already a history table in the ADX for injector offset i would create one, log the wideband or blm's on that scale and then you can offset the table from the results.

Just to be clear, the tuning guide for $12P was specifically written for $11/12P based computers, but in general its the same theory for any MAP based computer, but being that you have a MAF its a whole different way of doing things, also alot of the tables the tuning guide refers to are not in the other MAF based tunes..... dont get me wrong i think reading it will still give you valuable information for tuning in general though.

probably one of the other MAF gurus can add some more detail on point 5, im sure im not the best one to answer it :)

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Re: NVRAM 1st use help

Postby antus » Sat Apr 28, 2018 7:40 pm

5. yes that injector rate constant table is the table you should be looking at. The first one covers 50-850mg and the other one covers 850-1650 (high boost) area. You should be able to enable bubble tracing when looking at those tables and logging so you can see what offset if being applied to the fueling and make modifications there to change it. Bubble tracing should work on the spark timing tables too. Use the monitors view and right click to choose the data you want to overlay to measure how far out the main tables are so you know what areas of the main tables you need to correct.
Have you read the FAQ? For lots of information and links to significant threads see here: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1396

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Re: NVRAM 1st use help

Postby L67VSTY » Tue May 01, 2018 10:38 pm

HI Guys thanks for spending the time to answer my questions, I don't know how any of you guys on this site worked out all these things without your help I had no idea even how to use the information. I mostly understand now how to go about starting to make some changes but have some more things I am not certain on before I start.

Is the ADX editor part of tuner pro or is it something that you download online?

If you could help with the realtime buttons would be a great help too. I don't understand them well eg
Once I connect the car & it is data logging or I am just viewing the tables with the bubble can I make a change & then just click the up arrow to save the changes to the NVRAM or do I 1st have to use the down arrow & then do the change & then use up arrow to save it?
Are the up and down arrows the same or similar to the Flashtool from what I understand they both only use the cal data not the complete bin file ?

Then the blue chip button in the realtime button menu instructions from Tunerpro RT realtime Tuning guide indicates to use this for instant & live updates is there any tricks to this?

I have been reading the Flashtool threads & there are lot of variations for using the tool, they seem to be linked to different versions is there an easy way to use flashtool?

thanks again.

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Re: NVRAM 1st use help

Postby antus » Thu May 03, 2018 6:20 pm

The ADX defines the data from the car to the laptop for monitoring. You dont need to edit it, you only need to load the right one to see information from the car. You can edit it in tunerpro if you need to change it so technically yes the editor is in tunerpro but I would suggest you do not from where it sounds like you are at with learning about this stuff, but of course you can if you want.

If you have moved the RW jumper so that it is across both pins (this should be done with the nvram in the pcm and the car off) then you will be able to make live changes. You click the blue chip icon to turn on live updates (realtime). Make sure what is in tunerpro matches whats on the car. At the minimum load the XDF, ADX, and click download, then saveas to put a working copy on your pc, name as recommend by Holden202T says above for naming and backups. Alternatively if you know whats on yout laptop matches the car just load the bin.

Realtime changes are one way to tune, and can be good, but offline tunes allow you to do more thinking and number crunching from recorded data. If you are doing it offline make your changes, then hit the up arrow when your ready to send the whole lot to the car. If you are realtime editing the save buttons become upload buttons as you change things and you can click to send individual changes to the car as you go.

When your editing tables you can select areas like in a spread sheet then select an operation like "add 1". Then you can use the graph view (right click and drag to spin it around) to smooth out the points. Sometimes its hard to click the right point so you can also type the number in to the spread sheet view to get the point where you want it. I tend to use a bit of each.

Its very important not to make changes you dont understand and not to use random guesswork. Educated guesses are OK :) Spend the time to do your research first (as you are). There are many more variables in the tune than you need to change. You should only need to change a couple of scalars (numbers) or flags (on/off) or tables (X vs Y lookup) for most of the things you need to do. If you change something and dont get the result you were looking for make sure you change it back as the more errors you accumulate the harder you find it to recover back to "as good as it was" when you started. And of course take backups. It is possible to kill the contents of the NVRAM if you make far out mistakes (such as upload a completely mismatching bin, or plug the nvram in to eh pcm with the pcm powered up), then you will need a programmer to get it running again. Once your done with tuning its recommended to remove the RW jumper to protect the contents of the NVRAM, and ideally when the project is finished write the final tune back to the original memcal as its rock solid reliable and has no battery in it to eventually expire. This step can come later if you dont want to get the gear now, so long as you have a good copy of the tune on hand. When the time comes it may even be possible to put a wanted add on here then PM the file to someone to write it for you and post. personally I'd recommend a TL866 programmer and a UV eraser from ebay. This can recover you if something silly kills the nvram, and will allow you to erase and write the final tune on to an actual memcal when your tuning is complete.
Have you read the FAQ? For lots of information and links to significant threads see here: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1396

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Re: NVRAM 1st use help

Postby L67VSTY » Thu May 03, 2018 10:28 pm

Thanks again Antus, I have copied your statement in part & will change the font to CAPITALS through out with some details & questions.

"You can edit it in tunerpro if you need to change it so technically yes the editor is in tunerpro but I would suggest you do not from where it sounds like you are at with learning about this stuff, but of course you can if you want."

THE REASON FOR THE EDITING OF THE ADX IS TO USE THE BLM AS A GAUGE I DON'T HAVE A WIDEBAND AND THERE IS NO OPTION TO SELECT BLM INSTEAD OF JUST CHANGING THINGS RANDOMLY OR IS THERE ANOTHER WAY TO VIEW WHAT TO CHANGE?

"If you have moved the RW jumper so that it is across both pins (this should be done with the nvram in the pcm and the car off) then you will be able to make live changes."

YES JUMPER IS ACROSS BOTH PINS

"You click the blue chip icon to turn on live updates (realtime)."

AT WHAT POINT DO I TURN ON LIVE UPDATES, IS IT AFTER A CHANGE TO SOMETHING OR BEFORE DATA LOGGING ?

"Make sure what is in tunerpro matches whats on the car. "

IS THE SAFEST TO USE FLASHTOOL FOR A DOWNLOAD THEN SOMEHOW UPLOAD THE CAL FILE BEFORE ANY CHANGES ARE MADE OR JUST USE THE FLASHTOOL TO SAVE A COPY & THEN THE DOWN ARROW TO USE TUNERPRO?

"At the minimum load the XDF, ADX, and click download,"

WOULD DOWNLOAD BE THE DOWN ARROW

"Realtime changes are one way to tune, and can be good, but offline tunes allow you to do more thinking and number crunching from recorded data."

I THINK THIS IS MY PREFERRED METHOD TO START OFF UNLESS IT IS A MINOR CHANGE

"If you are doing it offline make your changes, then hit the up arrow when your ready to send the whole lot to the car."

DOES THIS MEAN IF I AM EDITING THE BIN FILE OFFLINE (COMPLETE FILE) THE UP ARROW WILL ONLY SEND THE CAL FILE TO THE CAR IS THIS WHAT YOU MEAN BY "send the whole lot to the car." OR DO YOU MEAN THE COMPLETE BIN FILE GOES TO THE CAR ?

"If you are realtime editing the save buttons become upload buttons as you change things and you can click to send individual changes to the car as you go."

ARE THE SAVE BUTTONS IN THE MENU - FILE/SAVE BIN OR IS IT THE BLUE CHIP BUTTON IN REALTIME BUTTONS OR BOTH DO THE SAME

Its very important not to make changes you don't understand and not to use random guesswork. Educated guesses are OK :) Spend the time to do your research first (as you are). There are many more variables in the tune than you need to change.

I AGREE THAT IS WHY ALL THE QUESTIONS I HAVE MADE SUCCESSFUL CHANGES TO THE TRANSMISSION IN MY VS & VT BUT HAVE BEEN PUTTING OFF THE ENG TUNE DUE TO LACK OF UNDERSTANDING SO FAR

You should only need to change a couple of scalars (numbers) or flags (on/off) or tables (X vs Y lookup) for most of the things you need to do.

COULD YOU EXPLAIN A LITTLE OF WHAT YOU MEAN BY "tables (X vs Y lookup)"

If you change something and dont get the result you were looking for make sure you change it back as the more errors you accumulate the harder you find it to recover back to "as good as it was" when you started. And of course take backups.

THAT IS WHAT I DONE WHEN CHANGING TRANS SETTINGS, ONLY ONCE DID I HAVE TO GO BACK AFTER 8 CHANGES, WAS MOSTLY SMALL UNTIL I COULD SEE A CHANGE, THANKS

It is possible to kill the contents of the NVRAM if you make far out mistakes (such as upload a completely mismatching bin, or plug the nvram in to the pcm with the pcm powered up), then you will need a programmer to get it running again.

THE NVRAM DIDN'T WORK FROM THE START I HAD TO REPROGRAM IT & THEN WAS FINE. I DID GET A GQ 4x4 PROGRAMMER BEFORE AS EACH CHANGE I WAS MAKING I HAD TO ERASE & REPROGRAM FACTORY MEMCAL

Once your done with tuning its recommended to remove the RW jumper to protect the contents of the NVRAM, and ideally when the project is finished write the final tune back to the original memcal as its rock solid reliable and has no battery in it to eventually expire.

THIS IS THE PLAN AS I WANT TO PRACTICE ON THE VT THEN THE VS & I HAVE A PROJECT VY THAT WILL RUN DUAL FUEL ALSO.

Thanks again I plan to try some of these things on the weekend.

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Re: NVRAM 1st use help

Postby antus » Fri May 04, 2018 3:15 pm

L67VSTY wrote:Thanks again Antus, I have copied your statement in part & will change the font to CAPITALS through out with some details & questions.

"You can edit it in tunerpro if you need to change it so technically yes the editor is in tunerpro but I would suggest you do not from where it sounds like you are at with learning about this stuff, but of course you can if you want."

THE REASON FOR THE EDITING OF THE ADX IS TO USE THE BLM AS A GAUGE I DON'T HAVE A WIDEBAND AND THERE IS NO OPTION TO SELECT BLM INSTEAD OF JUST CHANGING THINGS RANDOMLY OR IS THERE ANOTHER WAY TO VIEW WHAT TO CHANGE?


Wideband is the best option. BLMs are there to apply trims as parts/sensors etc wear out from the narrow band. It'll give you some idea, but results will not be as good as wideband and the narrowband sensor can only measure AFRs of 14.7:1 stoich so you will never be able to visualise enrichment / enleanment etc. Also, the process will be very slow. BLMs only change slowly, so you'll need to drive around a fair bit, then make a change, reset your blms and go again. Maybe its all you need but its not my recommendation.

"You click the blue chip icon to turn on live updates (realtime)."

AT WHAT POINT DO I TURN ON LIVE UPDATES, IS IT AFTER A CHANGE TO SOMETHING OR BEFORE DATA LOGGING ?


when you want to change a value with the car running and observe the results.

"Make sure what is in tunerpro matches whats on the car. "

IS THE SAFEST TO USE FLASHTOOL FOR A DOWNLOAD THEN SOMEHOW UPLOAD THE CAL FILE BEFORE ANY CHANGES ARE MADE OR JUST USE THE FLASHTOOL TO SAVE A COPY & THEN THE DOWN ARROW TO USE TUNERPRO?


Get bin in the flash tool will give you something you can flash back to the nvram with an eprom programmer should something go wrong and you get to the point where you can not link over the vehicle data port. Down arrow in tunerpro will save the calibration which you can send back to the car over the data port to undo some changes. Both files will have a .bin extension and look the same on the PC. If you have a save from tunerpro it is possible to inject the operating system back in to it and write it to the nvram chip in a programmer, its just more steps and some people need help with it. Its your decision which way you want to work. Maybe even both at different times.

"At the minimum load the XDF, ADX, and click download,"

WOULD DOWNLOAD BE THE DOWN ARROW


yes

"If you are doing it offline make your changes, then hit the up arrow when your ready to send the whole lot to the car."

DOES THIS MEAN IF I AM EDITING THE BIN FILE OFFLINE (COMPLETE FILE) THE UP ARROW WILL ONLY SEND THE CAL FILE TO THE CAR IS THIS WHAT YOU MEAN BY "send the whole lot to the car." OR DO YOU MEAN THE COMPLETE BIN FILE GOES TO THE CAR ?


yes the nvram will only accept updates to the calibration. you can not write/update the operating system on a pcm nvram over the vehicle data port. Should you need to update the operating system one day (not normally needed) you need an eprom programmer.

"If you are realtime editing the save buttons become upload buttons as you change things and you can click to send individual changes to the car as you go."

ARE THE SAVE BUTTONS IN THE MENU - FILE/SAVE BIN OR IS IT THE BLUE CHIP BUTTON IN REALTIME BUTTONS OR BOTH DO THE SAME


file/save options save to disk. up down icons upload/download the whole cailbration to/from the car. realtime edit saves in individual xdf items save only that one item back to the car. if your note 'emulating' that button changes and it saves to disk.

You should only need to change a couple of scalars (numbers) or flags (on/off) or tables (X vs Y lookup) for most of the things you need to do.

COULD YOU EXPLAIN A LITTLE OF WHAT YOU MEAN BY "tables (X vs Y lookup)"
[/tables]

tables of data look like a spread sheet with an X axis and a Y axis eg RPM vs MAP and are used where the computer needs to lookup a value from those 2 things. It averages the data from the neighbouring cells when the value from sensor is part way between the rows and columns.

It is possible to kill the contents of the NVRAM if you make far out mistakes (such as upload a completely mismatching bin, or plug the nvram in to the pcm with the pcm powered up), then you will need a programmer to get it running again.

THE NVRAM DIDN'T WORK FROM THE START I HAD TO REPROGRAM IT & THEN WAS FINE. I DID GET A GQ 4x4 PROGRAMMER BEFORE AS EACH CHANGE I WAS MAKING I HAD TO ERASE & REPROGRAM FACTORY MEMCAL


cool, glad you have one. :thumbup:
Have you read the FAQ? For lots of information and links to significant threads see here: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1396

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Re: NVRAM 1st use help

Postby L67VSTY » Sun May 06, 2018 7:45 pm

1) OK wideband it will be then.

2) I have used flashtool to get the bin, cal, RAM & EEPROM. I have multiple copies of BIN & CAL files but they appear to be the same thing both are saved as .bin files & both are the same size is this normally what happens ? just looking at you answer it appears that way if so how can I tell which one I can use to write a new chip & which one is just the cal file ?

3) I also had some issues connecting to the car numerous times it was connecting & disconnecting, sometimes when I clicked the "initailise emulation hardware" button it would connect & then an error would occur & shutdown TPv5RT I think one time I tried the blue chip button "enable/disable emulation" and it also seemed to do the same thing.
I am still confused with the blue chip button and how or when to use it possibly not understanding the terminology of emulation possibly!
Looking at your previous answer for "You click the blue chip icon to turn on live updates (realtime)."(when you want to change a value with the car running and observe the results)" isn't that what the up arrow is for to change the values when the car is running ? Below is part of the same button we have discussed but the mention of the XDF is making it hard to understand for me the bin & cal files as this didn't even get a mention & not sure how they relate as far as saving am I also modifying the XDF with these changes ?

"If you are realtime editing the save buttons become upload buttons as you change things and you can click to send individual changes to the car as you go."

ARE THE SAVE BUTTONS IN THE MENU - FILE/SAVE BIN OR IS IT THE BLUE CHIP BUTTON IN REALTIME BUTTONS OR BOTH DO THE SAME

file/save options save to disk. up down icons upload/download the whole cailbration to/from the car. realtime edit saves in individual xdf items save only that one item back to the car. if your note 'emulating' that button changes and it saves to disk.



6) I made some fan temp changes and am not sure if I have saved them to the NVRAM or just tunerpro or just a file or log I am confused now will have to see if I can understand it a bit better before I try to find out.

Thanks again for your help I know it's probably painful trying to explain something that may seem so simple to you guys but I really appreciate it and would like to be able to do it myself & make changes to the car & adjust the tune to suit as I use them for drag racing also want to monitor each change for improvement before trying another change.

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Re: NVRAM 1st use help

Postby delcowizzid » Sun May 06, 2018 9:18 pm

Fire up tinsel and detect hardware press the arrow to download bin from emulator this will pull the current cal out of the nvram into tunerpro .click on the blue chip to enable emulation do your changes in real time all the buttons that used to be labelled as save in the tables become labelled upload when the blue chip is selected. When finished in select the blue chip and can goto save as and name the current bin to save a copy to your pc if you want to work more with it offline.i only upload cal files with the ose flashtool I never use the tunerpro upload bin to emulator arrow .
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Re: NVRAM 1st use help

Postby L67VSTY » Wed May 09, 2018 12:54 am

HI Delcowizzard thanks for your help but sorry I got lost on what fire up tinsel means and then I couldn't understand mostly the rest of the processes you described.

I think I understand when the blue chip is selected the tables will have an upload instead of save button ! Do I need to do any other save or anything else to put the changes into the NVRAM permanently?

Is the below statement only required to save as if working offline or as a backup ?
"When finished in select the blue chip and can goto save as and name the current bin to save a copy to your pc if you want to work more with it offline"

I am confused between the last line you wrote below & the 1st line where you say to use the arrow and the other you say you never upload bin is this the up arrow ?
"i only upload cal files with the ose flashtool I never use the tunerpro upload bin to emulator arrow ."

I used Flashtool to get bin & get cal but both files are the same size is this correct ?

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