Brake pads.

For non EFI mechanical discussion
User avatar
vlad01
Posts: 7780
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 6:41 pm
cars: VP I S
VP I executive
VP II executive
VP II executive #2
VR II executive
Location: Kyneton, Vic

Re: Brake pads.

Post by vlad01 »

All calipers flex, some a lot, some minimal. Depends on the construction and design. I know a lot of people complain the VT calipers flex too but to a lesser degree to pre VT. These people say they see big improvements going to a comparable HSV caliper due to the stiffer design even though the piston and pad size is similar.

The "VL Turbo" calipers are a bit better due to the ribs but are still limited due to pad and piston area, the main improvements actually come from the larger 290mm rotor which allows more leverage and better cooling.

That's what the late VPs have standard, the VL turbo calipers and yet on this car the plates worked out of place more than the standard VB style calipers on the shitbox.

Lowe fabrication offer a new upgrade over the normal VT conversion, same hub, same VT rotors but a 4 piston Baer caliper. This is what I am considering upgrading to for the VP S so I can use standard VT rotors and small wheel size (fits stock 15"). In my case I have 16" VL SV wheels.
I'm the director of VSH (Vlad's Spec Holden), because HSV were doing it ass about.
Charlescrown
Posts: 1831
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:58 am
cars: V8 VR Commodore BT1
LB Lancer 2L turbo & Delco
Starion TBI with Delco
Mitsubishi Lancer EVO4 track car
NA MX5
3 vintage motor bikes
Location: Padstow NSW

Re: Brake pads.

Post by Charlescrown »

Yes of course everything flexes but they all don't return. I believe the Holden ones stay bent after some serious braking. I had a look at Lowe Fabrication. They look good but having to go through the engineering requirement for brakes cost big bucks to do all the stopping tests.
User avatar
vlad01
Posts: 7780
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 6:41 pm
cars: VP I S
VP I executive
VP II executive
VP II executive #2
VR II executive
Location: Kyneton, Vic

Re: Brake pads.

Post by vlad01 »

True but since most basic mods technically need engineering, even simple VT brakes do so nearly no one bothers with engineering, especially in Vic where it's nearly impossible to get emissions testing for modded engines which is part of the engineering requirements.
I'm the director of VSH (Vlad's Spec Holden), because HSV were doing it ass about.
Charlescrown
Posts: 1831
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:58 am
cars: V8 VR Commodore BT1
LB Lancer 2L turbo & Delco
Starion TBI with Delco
Mitsubishi Lancer EVO4 track car
NA MX5
3 vintage motor bikes
Location: Padstow NSW

Re: Brake pads.

Post by Charlescrown »

The big problem is with an insurance claim. Yes I do know that a VT conversion should also be complied but a lot easier than aftermarket calipers. We still have 2 emission testing stations both run by the RMS which is a free test with printout supplied.
User avatar
vlad01
Posts: 7780
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 6:41 pm
cars: VP I S
VP I executive
VP II executive
VP II executive #2
VR II executive
Location: Kyneton, Vic

Re: Brake pads.

Post by vlad01 »

Depends on the insurer, I'm with Shannon's and they don't give a stuff about engineering as long as you list your mods to the policy they cover it, I had one claim before and they were awesome. No issues what so ever, even let me buy the wreck back at a low price despite the car being too new at the time to be automatically given back to me.

The issue in Vic is there is only one emission testing place and it is private, 1300 bucks a pop and you don't get to tune there and also they don't give you the results on the day, you get them mailed to you.

So this makes tuning for emissions virtually impossible and cost prohibitive in Vic. I did read that VACC is lobbying to get an alternative test using the more common 5 gas analyser, but the wording is saying individually constructed vehicles, nothing about this alternative test for modded cars.

I have tried to speak to 4 or 5 different engineers here regarding emissions and brakes but all of them never responded or got back to me.
I'm the director of VSH (Vlad's Spec Holden), because HSV were doing it ass about.
Charlescrown
Posts: 1831
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:58 am
cars: V8 VR Commodore BT1
LB Lancer 2L turbo & Delco
Starion TBI with Delco
Mitsubishi Lancer EVO4 track car
NA MX5
3 vintage motor bikes
Location: Padstow NSW

Re: Brake pads.

Post by Charlescrown »

Yea I'm surprised with Shanons accepting all as long as you list it. With emission testing in NSW it goes back quiet a few years. I was a committee member of the SAE at the time and they worked with the RTA to setup the 2 testing stations with the purpose of generating a standard for an anual test for all cars produced after 1976. The idea was to get as many people to have their cars tested to create a data base they could then use as a benchmark for what emission levels were acceptable depending on what ADR they complied with. The idea was to get enough data and set limits that would be acceptable for the age of the car. Well politicians got involved and got shit scared about the backlash they would get if everyone had to get an emission test done every year for registartion purposes so it all fell in a heap. With the NSW RTA having a hate for modified cars decided to ue the testing stations that cost several millions to test newly modified cars for compliance but they never used the data collected but required all cars to meet their ADR test for the first 240 seconds. They call it the IM240. This now leaves it open for cops to issues defects requiring your car to pass a test. Good thing it's free you just have to book in and hope your mods still comply. I was there one day and a Subaru owner was almost in tears after spending big bucks putting his car back to std and it still failed after quiet afew tests. I told him to go back to Subaru.
User avatar
vlad01
Posts: 7780
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 6:41 pm
cars: VP I S
VP I executive
VP II executive
VP II executive #2
VR II executive
Location: Kyneton, Vic

Re: Brake pads.

Post by vlad01 »

That's why I went with Shannon's, all other companies I spoke to flat out refused cover as soon as I mentioned mods.
It really sucks it's not free in Vic, the IM240 was free but the facility closed a number of years ago and some private mob does it now at a huge premium.
I'm the director of VSH (Vlad's Spec Holden), because HSV were doing it ass about.
User avatar
j_ds_au
Posts: 384
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2015 4:21 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Brake pads.

Post by j_ds_au »

I thought that those shims were to limit the heat transferred back to the pistons and hence, to the brake fluid?

Anyway, FWIW, I use Bendix Heavy Duty on the VS, and that works fine for me. The standard Bendix just wear out too quickly, so I only ever used those the one time. But I don't have a taper on my rotors.

Joe.
User avatar
vlad01
Posts: 7780
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 6:41 pm
cars: VP I S
VP I executive
VP II executive
VP II executive #2
VR II executive
Location: Kyneton, Vic

Re: Brake pads.

Post by vlad01 »

What I meant by taper is the pads wear on a taper due to flexing of the caliper. The rotor itself remains flat.

Can't say I have ever had my brakes boil even when overheating the rotors well past the metal going blue, but my half brother boiled his BF falcon brakes down a steep dirt road having to resort to 1st gear and handbrake to not crash, scary stuff.
I'm the director of VSH (Vlad's Spec Holden), because HSV were doing it ass about.
Charlescrown
Posts: 1831
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:58 am
cars: V8 VR Commodore BT1
LB Lancer 2L turbo & Delco
Starion TBI with Delco
Mitsubishi Lancer EVO4 track car
NA MX5
3 vintage motor bikes
Location: Padstow NSW

Re: Brake pads.

Post by Charlescrown »

On Joe's point of view I have always known them as a shim to reduce squeal and vibration but you got me thinking with some being stainless steel yes they would also become a heat barrier. I think the objective of any braking system is to transfer heat away from the pads into other parts and wheels so now you got me thinking.
Post Reply