Mother of all 7603 XDF files

They go by many names, P01, P59, VPW, '0411 etc. Also covering E38 and newer here.
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160plus
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Re: Mother of all 7603 XDF files

Post by 160plus »

persingc wrote:The 7603 xdf I've contributed to has been pulled based on the creators of LSDroid plans to monetize a tuning app. While they have plausible deny ability they aren't going to use those in this community hard work for their gains I'm skeptical. While I know my file is out in the wild and they probably have some version of it you can thank them for it being pulled.
Your XDF was a shameless copy of the XDF DzidaV8 created a number of years ago.

You should also get your facts straight before you start making baseless accusations, what Tazzi(as he is know here) and OBDX Pro do has NOTHING to do with Ls Droid and I am extremely offended by what you're insinuating.
Asylumwarp
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Re: Mother of all 7603 XDF files

Post by Asylumwarp »

Honestly someone who is complaining about ripping off work getting upset pulling their xdf down sounds like a cry baby complainer AT BEST who is upset about the fact they won't be needed anymore and won't be profiting off the backs of others hard work.. You blatantly ripped off someone else's hard work and now think you can claim it as the mother of xdfs? Get outta here. Your xdf isn't the god send of anything.

THESE TYPE OF PEOPLE THAT POST AND REMOVE THE COMMUNITY INFORMATION IS THE EXACT PROBLEM THAT NEEDS FIXED BY A FREE SOLUTION. THEY WANT CREDIT FOR SOMETHING THEY COPIED.. THEY ARE NOT GETTING IT. GET UPSET AND LEAVE. DONT LET THE DOOR HIT YOU ON THE WAY OUT BUD.
persingc
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Re: Mother of all 7603 XDF files

Post by persingc »

160plus wrote:
persingc wrote:The 7603 xdf I've contributed to has been pulled based on the creators of LSDroid plans to monetize a tuning app. While they have plausible deny ability they aren't going to use those in this community hard work for their gains I'm skeptical. While I know my file is out in the wild and they probably have some version of it you can thank them for it being pulled.
Your XDF was a shameless copy of the XDF DzidaV8 created a number of years ago.

You should also get your facts straight before you start making baseless accusations, what Tazzi(as he is know here) and OBDX Pro do has NOTHING to do with Ls Droid and I am extremely offended by what you're insinuating.

First off I'm not trying to make money off of it. Secondly I 've added to it like you clearly have zero clue of. I credited all of those that I was aware of and would have been happy to credit any other I inadvertently left out. Ripping peoples work off FOR PROFIT is what I'm ticked about. I had hoped other here would continue to build upon it. This entire deal stinks of the other tuning deals on the past where an open community get screwed over.
persingc
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Re: Mother of all 7603 XDF files

Post by persingc »

Asylumwarp wrote:Honestly someone who is complaining about ripping off work getting upset pulling their xdf down sounds like a cry baby complainer AT BEST who is upset about the fact they won't be needed anymore and won't be profiting off the backs of others hard work.. You blatantly ripped off someone else's hard work and now think you can claim it as the mother of xdfs? Get outta here. Your xdf isn't the god send of anything.

THESE TYPE OF PEOPLE THAT POST AND REMOVE THE COMMUNITY INFORMATION IS THE EXACT PROBLEM THAT NEEDS FIXED BY A FREE SOLUTION. THEY WANT CREDIT FOR SOMETHING THEY COPIED.. THEY ARE NOT GETTING IT. GET UPSET AND LEAVE. DONT LET THE DOOR HIT YOU ON THE WAY OUT BUD.

You must be stupid! I'm not the one trying to profit of any my work. Tazzi and his friends are.
persingc
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Re: Mother of all 7603 XDF files

Post by persingc »

Asylumwarp wrote:Honestly someone who is complaining about ripping off work getting upset pulling their xdf down sounds like a cry baby complainer AT BEST who is upset about the fact they won't be needed anymore and won't be profiting off the backs of others hard work.. You blatantly ripped off someone else's hard work and now think you can claim it as the mother of xdfs? Get outta here. Your xdf isn't the god send of anything.

THESE TYPE OF PEOPLE THAT POST AND REMOVE THE COMMUNITY INFORMATION IS THE EXACT PROBLEM THAT NEEDS FIXED BY A FREE SOLUTION. THEY WANT CREDIT FOR SOMETHING THEY COPIED.. THEY ARE NOT GETTING IT. GET UPSET AND LEAVE. DONT LET THE DOOR HIT YOU ON THE WAY OUT BUD.
And you clearly never got to see my work because it was not just a simple copy of other. Did it start that way yes it did. Now it's an equal to a commercial product. Which again I'M NOT THE ONE TRYING TO PROFIT FROM YOU TOOL!
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Re: Mother of all 7603 XDF files

Post by Tazzi »

persingc wrote:And you clearly never got to see my work because it was not just a simple copy of other. Did it start that way yes it did. Now it's an equal to a commercial product. Which again I'M NOT THE ONE TRYING TO PROFIT FROM YOU TOOL!
Calling people names is both inappropriate, and usually done as a last resort to belittle people. Just because you disagree with someones comments, doesn't mean you can act like that.

Yes, I (Tazzi,OBDX, Envyous, Jason), do profit from my businesses. But, I do not care, one tiny little bit, about your XDF.
I mean, it is a direct build off of DzidaV8 work which has all main tables and parameters that people want anyway, which is still available. If you added to it and provided to the community, thats awesome! But.. it doesnt affect me or OBDX in the slightest.

Your single Operating System (Which others did 99% of the work) for a single ECU is not critical to me in anyway. There is literally a hundred+ operating systems just between P01,P04,P59,E54. And you believe I am hell bent on using your specific xdf (made by someone else)... that only covers 1 of 100+ operating systems... sounds a little bit silly doesnt it? ;)

As explained multiple times now, our information is coming from vetted sources, I am not going to trust a randoms work (No offence) that cannot indicate HOW he's gotten the offsets, calculations and names. Just because you needed to work off of someone elses work, doesn't mean I want to or need to. As I am a business, I do have to be upfront about how I get my information, as tuning companies (like hp or efi) will be watching and ensuring things are not directly ripped from them (Which is what all these XDFs have been doing). Now with that in mind, that puts OBDX in legal cross hairs to even consider those XDFs, again... a bit silly to even think they would be used. :)

Believe or not. Either way I have been nothing but upfront to the entire community for exactly how I am planning on adding more OS support by buying information. OBDX will (One day) actually profit from it, but in a way that cost the community $0 through usage of Ads. I never said OBDX would not profit, I only offered a solution to the lack of Operating System support, along with lacking support for future ECUs.
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roughneck427
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Re: Mother of all 7603 XDF files

Post by roughneck427 »

I can tell you this xdf is not going to make or break the tuning community. Pete and Jason have everything they need already. Just because people don’t post don’t mean there isn’t info out there.
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Re: Mother of all 7603 XDF files

Post by Tazzi »

roughneck427 wrote:I can tell you this xdf is not going to make or break the tuning community. Pete and Jason have everything they need already. Just because people don’t post don’t mean there isn’t info out there.
Thankyou for the support :D
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NSFW
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Re: Mother of all 7603 XDF files

Post by NSFW »

I think that the more tools and information we can put into peoples' hands, the better.

Giving stuff away for free does create the possibility that people will find profitable ways to build on top of it, but I generally think of that as a good thing. I expect that there will be people who use PCM Hammer to make changes to customers' cars, and get paid for it, and IMO that's great, it means more people are going to be doing more cool stuff with cars, and more people will get involved in the community, including more people who can contribute changes to benefit everyone.

Licensing terms can be useful here. If someone were to re-skin PCM Hammer and add a feature or two, and sell it, that's not OK. It's GPL'd for a reason - we all put work into it, and the way we get a return on that investment is that anyone else who builds on top of it releases the source code for their changes as well. The GPL was a terrific invention because it aligns the incentives for decentralized projects.

One lesson here might be that the XDF files should have been released under GPL terms. That would ensures that future enhancements benefit the entire community. But that might require the copyright owner to agree, which would be hard to get for XDFs whose creators are no longer responding to email. (And yes I do think XDFs are copyrightable and therefore GPLable - kind of like how an orchestra can copyright a recording of performance, even if they have no rights to the underlying score.) Without GPL for XDFs, we just have the honor system to steer people toward contributing what they add on top.

At some point (and maybe we're past that point) it would be good to set up a Github repo with at least the key XDFs (2156 and 6125 for P01, 7603 and probably 2618 for P59), and corresponding PCM Logger XML, and get the community into the habit of contributing new stuff. Basically, establish customs/traditions for people to get credit for the hard work that it takes to develop them and keep thing growing. And keep that ball rolling as long as possible.
Please don't PM me with technical questions - start a thread instead, and send me a link to it. That way I can answer in public, and help other people who have the same question. Thanks!
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Re: Mother of all 7603 XDF files

Post by Thorwon »

NSFW wrote:I think that the more tools and information we can put into peoples' hands, the better.

Giving stuff away for free does create the possibility that people will find profitable ways to build on top of it, but I generally think of that as a good thing. I expect that there will be people who use PCM Hammer to make changes to customers' cars, and get paid for it, and IMO that's great, it means more people are going to be doing more cool stuff with cars, and more people will get involved in the community, including more people who can contribute changes to benefit everyone.

Licensing terms can be useful here. If someone were to re-skin PCM Hammer and add a feature or two, and sell it, that's not OK. It's GPL'd for a reason - we all put work into it, and the way we get a return on that investment is that anyone else who builds on top of it releases the source code for their changes as well. The GPL was a terrific invention because it aligns the incentives for decentralized projects.

One lesson here might be that the XDF files should have been released under GPL terms. That would ensures that future enhancements benefit the entire community. But that might require the copyright owner to agree, which would be hard to get for XDFs whose creators are no longer responding to email. (And yes I do think XDFs are copyrightable and therefore GPLable - kind of like how an orchestra can copyright a recording of performance, even if they have no rights to the underlying score.) Without GPL for XDFs, we just have the honor system to steer people toward contributing what they add on top.

At some point (and maybe we're past that point) it would be good to set up a Github repo with at least the key XDFs (2156 and 6125 for P01, 7603 and probably 2618 for P59), and corresponding PCM Logger XML, and get the community into the habit of contributing new stuff. Basically, establish customs/traditions for people to get credit for the hard work that it takes to develop them and keep thing growing. And keep that ball rolling as long as possible.

NSFW, I like the way you think.
I'm not a programmer or even a tuner. I'm just a guy that likes to play with things I've never done before.
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I try to contribute as best I can, and that's all I can do. I can't control what anybody else does.
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