P01 '0411 12200411 v6 support

They go by many names, P01, P59, VPW, '0411 etc. Also covering E38 and newer here.
Tyson
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Re: P01 '0411 12200411 v6 support

Post by Tyson »

Hey guys I'm curious if anyone now's can 2 pcm be ran as in could one use the factory pcm for the trans and run the engine off the 411. Just unsure if 2 pcms would run fine being you would have to have some of the wires tied into both pcms I belive.
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antus
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Re: P01 '0411 12200411 v6 support

Post by antus »

In theory yes, but it wont work as well. The engine PCM wont know what the gearbox is doing and the pcm doing the gearbox wont be able to influence spark etc to soften gear changes. You'll also need to spend some time figuring out the minimum of sensors you need for the auto computer to work and what errors codes you need to disable. Engine computer should think the vehicle is manual.
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Tyson
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Re: P01 '0411 12200411 v6 support

Post by Tyson »

antus wrote:In theory yes, but it wont work as well. The engine PCM wont know what the gearbox is doing and the pcm doing the gearbox wont be able to influence spark etc to soften gear changes. You'll also need to spend some time figuring out the minimum of sensors you need for the auto computer to work and what errors codes you need to disable. Engine computer should think the vehicle is manual.
K. Sorry for all the questions. I have access to manuals and such and only real difference I can find in a 4l80e wiring and a 4t65ehd found in are gtp in Canada is 1 TCC wire in the manual valve pressure switch 4l80 has 3 wires for D3,D2-D4,D2-REV,LO and the 4t65 has the same 3 wires on the same D3,D2 patterns but also has a 4th wire labeled TCC Release the 4l65 has TCC release in the brake switch as well. 4l80 only has TCC release on the brake switch dont think this will cause a hug problem. Just seeing what you all think before I jump in on this really interested to try this but trying to get as much info as I can before I jump in with 2 feet. Thx again cheers
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Re: P01 '0411 12200411 v6 support

Post by Holden202T »

Well its been a long time between drinks, i've learnt a lot since i tried to run the 202 on jackaroo DFI and 6 + 1 crank trigger feeding into LS 0411 PCM....

So i have had it running previously but it never really ran well and it was pushed into the corner after that for other priorities, so i wanted to try and work a few things out to see where my issues might have been.

1. did i have the injectors on the right cylinder, and being it was an 8 cylinder loom, did i have an injector connected that wasnt firing at all in 6 cylinder low res mode etc.

2. was the signal outputted from the DFI module to the ECU (3 x per revolution) acceptable being that it was not the usual 60 degree on 60 degree off signal the standard v6 trigger creates.

3. was the EST signal outputting the right amount of pulses to fire the coil on every cylinder.

so in my case with the jackaroo DFI, it takes a 6 + 1 trigger, and then from that it fires the pairs of coils in a set pattern, so its easy enough to put the right plug leads on the right coils to get the firing order and wasted spark pairs sorted out.
It then sends a signal to the ECU which is a 3 pulses per revolution signal, which the ECU then picks up as its RPM pulse, and from there it sends back a EST signal, when to fire, how long etc (the spark control basically).

so i knew the DFI module was ok as i scoped its input and outputs, so i decided a good way to test was to get an ECU on the bench, wire in what i needed to see all the injectors and crank/cam etc signals, i then programmed up an arduino to make a 60 degree on/off signal, and after every 360 degrees change the cam from high/low etc ...

as you can see below, the crank signal is a perfect on/off every 60 degrees, and that was showing around 750rpm in HPT - just for reference.
0411 low res 60 deg crank and 50-50 cam.jpg
I actually did the below log first as i wanted to confirm i was getting a crank signal before i worried about the cam .... i found it quite interesting that above with the cam connected i was only getting 2 injectors firing and they were halfway between each cam transition.
So as you can see below, without the cam signal i get all 6 injectors firing, and they are in the correct firing order for my 202 (when i wired it up i used the v6 firing order compared to the 202 and put the injectors in the right order to suit) - so seems i got that part right, and the two injectors not used are not ones i should have used so happy days.
0411 low res 60 deg crank only.jpg
So this next one is basically the same as above but i used a 4mS trigger signal and then 24mS gaps between, again around 750rpm on HPT and cam signal not connected, when it was i had the same as the first picture.
0411 low res 4ms crank only.jpg
so i am stoked that i have at least confirmed a few things are right, and that the signal from the DFI module should work fine for the 0411 pcm.

BUT.... i am very confused as to why when it has a cam signal it seems to not work properly.

i am also going to assume, while its firing the injectors in the order i want, it has no way of knowing when to fire which injector, i dare say it just takes the first rpm signal as the start of the firing order and goes from there, so it could literally be half the motor out in the firing order!

now the tune i am using is basically a stock tune with vats removed and made sure the low res option was selected oh and injector rate to suit.
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Re: P01 '0411 12200411 v6 support

Post by antus »

have you got the low res crank trigger option set in the bin? i would have expected batch injection.

edit: actually, maybe the first one is batch fire in to two banks? if you put 3 injectors on to channel 2 and 3 on to channel 4 I think you might have it.
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Re: P01 '0411 12200411 v6 support

Post by Thorwon »

Holden202T what scope are you using? I don't have one and like the looks of that one.

Have you tried your simulation with 18x & 1x triggers? I'm thinking one of the Cadie v6 engines had that and ran a DFI waste spark. It was a US car.
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Holden202T
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Re: P01 '0411 12200411 v6 support

Post by Holden202T »

Antus, yes low res mode selected for both tests.

as for the injectors, none of the V6 blazer diagrams show it as the injectors any other way than individual (that i can find anyways)

Thorwon: i'd love to see a wiring diagram for the one you mention, as for a commodore v6 here, the 18x goes from the crank trigger into the DFI module, it then just sends the 3 x signals to the ECM.
the scope is here ... just search logic analser - https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/201557127906
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Re: P01 '0411 12200411 v6 support

Post by Apples »

Have you remapped the injectors to the correct firing order as I think the 4.3 v6 is different to the 3800 been a long time since last time I worked on this
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Holden202T
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Re: P01 '0411 12200411 v6 support

Post by Holden202T »

the firing order is not the issue, but what i did was found the chev v6 firing order and then used it to place the injector wires on the right cylinders for the 202 so it would match the v6 firing order, it looks like i got that right.

honestly the main issue is why with a cam sensor signal does it not fire all the injectors.
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Re: P01 '0411 12200411 v6 support

Post by antus »

In the "1158641445 - Auto V6.hpt" file on the 3rd page which you said you were using back then, vats is enabled. Its not vats doing an injector cut of some kind?

Could it be the polarity of the crank signal? Maybe it views one way around but it being read as the other on the PCM, thus what looks like a rising edge is a falling edge?

Is the PCM reporting any DTCs?
Have you read the FAQ? For lots of information and links to significant threads see here: http://pcmhacking.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1396
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