P04 PCM's

They go by many names, P01, P59, VPW, '0411 etc. Also covering E38 and newer here.
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DavidBraley
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P04 PCM's

Post by DavidBraley »

I have been following the “V6 Ability for PCM Hammer” thread viewtopic.php?f=42&t=6574, and I understand it’s the place to discuss creating support for the V6 engines by PCM Hammer. But I have a question that is a little off topic, so I'm asking it here: Is the P04 (Blue/Clear connectors) you guys are talking about in the V6 thread for the 3.4L 60 degree V6? And does it control other 60 degree V6's? I know that the P01 (Blue,Red) and P59 (Blue,Green) will control the 90 degree 4.3L V6. I think/hope that's right. Just trying to get a clearer picture of which V6 engines you guys are looking to get supported.

Why am I asking? I'm trying to get both the P04 V6 PCM's and the P08 L4 PCM's (Blue,Black connector) to work with the BDM, and that requires I'm sure that I have the correct PCM's here on my bench to play with...
-David

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Re: P04 PCM's

Post by antus »

Im just doing it because of the interest in that thread. Truth be told I dont have a huge amount of time but will help where I can. I dont know how far we'll go, and I dont think there needs to be a limit. I think if someone works on any variation and wants to help with the work, cut code, and test, we can try and support anything. I personally have ordered a P04 from the states that should be here in a couple of weeks. Mine was described as "Engine ECM Electronic Control Module 3.8L ID 9380717 Fits 00-02 CAMARO 9778669" as I understand the 9380717 hardware ID is a P04. But mine will just sit in the bench as those PCMs were not used in this country. I think Holden202T is interested to see if its possible to use one with our commodore coilpacks on a straight 6.
Have you read the FAQ? For lots of information and links to significant threads see here: http://pcmhacking.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1396
Vampyre
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Re: P04 PCM's

Post by Vampyre »

david the P04 is for all FWD v6 gm vehicles, the 3100, 3400 and 3800 motors vans and cars from 99-05 and 3800 firebird camaros
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DavidBraley
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Re: P04 PCM's

Post by DavidBraley »

Vampyre wrote:david the P04 is for all FWD v6 gm vehicles, the 3100, 3400 and 3800 motors vans and cars from 99-05 and 3800 firebird camaros
Vanpyre,

OK, only FWD for the P04. Just found this site, and it seems very helpful for which PCM is where (I'm not promoting anything here): https://pcmperformance.com/programming.html

Based on that page in the link above, I'm guessing the P08 L4 PCM's came in both FWD and RWD (I think the S-10 is an example of a RWD).

What I have here on my bench are:

Two service # 09356249, hardware # 16268310 P08 PCM's

One service # 09380717, hardware # 09357440 P04 PCM

I'm going to try and get another P04, but from a later model if possible.

I have not yet opened up one of the P08's to see if the flash is Intel or AMD. The other PCM's are Intel. I know, you guys use some kind of software to do that.

I still haven't figured out yet how to get the BDM to talk to any of these PCM's. It seems GM did a good job of hiding the pin-outs of the processor on the circuit board. I've discovered the datasheets don't help at all. I'm still trying to understand how the guy behind the USB BDM NT device figured it out on a 0411 P01. I'm guessing it was dumb luck for all of us the 1meg P59's used the same pin locations for hooking up the BDM as the P01.
-David

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Re: P04 PCM's

Post by MudDuck514 »

Hi all,

Just wanted to say keep up the good work to all those helping out.

I just picked up a 2001 Pontiac Grand AM with the 2.4l Twin Cam LD9 engine. SO it has what, a P08 or a P10 PCM?

Vampyre, just out of curiosity, what PCM was used with the 2005 3500 that replaced the 3400? I know the 2nd version was based on the 3900 while the original was based on the 3400.

Mike
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Gampy
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Re: P04 PCM's

Post by Gampy »

David,

Have you mapped out the pins on a P01/P59??
(BDM Pins on the 90 pin, where each one goes)
That is where I would start.

This is where a meter is your best friend, like I've already stated an analog meter works best and just start probing until you map it all out.
DavidBraley wrote:I'm still trying to understand how the guy behind the USB BDM NT device figured it out on a 0411 P01. I'm guessing it was dumb luck for all of us the 1meg P59's used the same pin locations for hooking up the BDM as the P01.
By spending many hours dissecting, probing, and reading data sheets ... Probably some (a lot of) electronics education as well.
No dumb luck, pure engineering!
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DavidBraley
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Re: P04 PCM's

Post by DavidBraley »

Gampy wrote:David,

Have you mapped out the pins on a P01/P59??
I have mapped out each BDM pin from the 160 pin microprocessor on both the P01 and P59 relative to the 90 pin header, and they are the same.

I have first started with the P08 PCM (4 cyl) because it shares the same 160 pin microprocessor package as the P01 and P59. The pin functions on the 160 pin microprocessor on the P08 4 cylinder PCM I have on my bench, are not the same as the 160 pin microprocessor on P01/P59. I first picked simple things like the external crystal line feeding to the cpu, and ground and VCC. Most of these are in completely different locations between the P01/P59 microprocessor and P08 microprocessor. This concerned me, so I'm going to play with the oscilloscope a bit and do some probing that way.

One pattern that I have found that I hope will help is the DSCLK, DSI, and DSO pins on the P01/P59 microprocessor are all in a row, just like on the datasheet! There is also another pattern for the BERR and RESET pins having one pin between them, just like on the datasheet. I'm hoping those same patterns can be discovered on the P08 microprocessor. I will also apply these same ideas to the P04 PCM.

I think I read somewhere that large manufactures would order common cpu's for their products, and pay extra to have them packaged at the factory so the pin locations are completely different from the datasheet. The idea being to slow down the competition from reverse engineering their products.

I might reach out to the maker of the BDM and see if he has any clues too. I'll keep probing away at this...
-David

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DavidBraley
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Re: P04 PCM's

Post by DavidBraley »

Just to add to my last post, I've even tried rotating the pin locations and even mirror imaging them. Nothing in the datasheets even remotely compare to the pin locations in the P01/P59. This is why I'm being super careful with the P08/P04 PCM's. Hardware "bricking" is much more permanent than software "bricking"...
-David

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DavidBraley
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Re: P04 PCM's

Post by DavidBraley »

It makes sense for me to continue the P04, P08 BDM stuff back on the USB BDM NT thread: viewtopic.php?f=42&t=6215
-David

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Re: P04 PCM's

Post by Scott68B »

Vampyre wrote:david the P04 is for all FWD v6 gm vehicles, the 3100, 3400 and 3800 motors vans and cars from 99-05 and 3800 firebird camaros
Vampyre, I was talking with a friend of mine this morning who has a 3500 he is trying to run with a OBD1 ECM, does the P04 cover that engine as well do you know?

Edit: corrected spelling of Vampyre which auto correct didn't like.
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