Mother of all 7603 XDF files

They go by many names, P01, P59, VPW, '0411 etc. Also covering E38 and newer here.
Rickky bobby
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Re: Mother of all 7603 XDF files

Post by Rickky bobby »

what happen to the link? says error 404 from page 2 when clicked on.
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Gampy
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Re: Mother of all 7603 XDF files

Post by Gampy »

Read post 1 ... It has been edited and a statement made as to why it has been removed.

Not sure I understand how it is affected by Envyous Customs plans though ...

But if I had to take a wild guess, I'd say it has to do with a license and viewtopic.php?f=26&t=6416&p=113667#p113667 ...
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Re: Mother of all 7603 XDF files

Post by Rickky bobby »

looks like God father put an end to the mother of all xdf 7603......thought it was "open source".
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Re: Mother of all 7603 XDF files

Post by Gampy »

Post 1 has been re-edited after my above comment ...

persingc,

It is well known Envyous Customs uses knowledge gleaned from this site, most commercial entities do, however Envyous Customs also contributes to this site.

Removing your xdf hurts only the community!

I assure you it's not going to affect them (Envyous Customs) whatsoever, in fact, it helps them, one less xdf for competition ...

I highly doubt anything in that xdf is unknown to them! ;)

Please re-think for community sake!

Thank you!
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Re: Mother of all 7603 XDF files

Post by Phoenix »

I'm sad to see the link gone.
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Re: Mother of all 7603 XDF files

Post by Tazzi »

persingc wrote:The 7603 xdf I've contributed to has been pulled based on the creators of LSDroid plans to monetize a tuning app. While they have plausible deny ability they aren't going to use those in this community hard work for their gains I'm skeptical. While I know my file is out in the wild and they probably have some version of it you can thank them for it being pulled.
Wow, not to be harsh, but I do not trust anything posted up online that is not vetted by a third party. I believe I had this exact conversion with you already. So why would I bother looking at an XDF (Made by others also) which no-one has indicated how or where they got the information? Let alone having any of the addresses, math or even tables vetted to if they are even correct?
Ontop of this, you do know that most, if not all, of the XDFs currently online have had majority of the information ripped from commercial platforms? Since I am yet to see a single person put their hand up, showing a Ghidra/IDA Pro decompile with all addresses identified, math pulled from subroutines and all manually mapped out. The 'free' information your referring to is likely majority taken from commercial products, which as a company, we simply cannot do.

The Ad funded editor that I have post about in lsdroid page yesterday, was to gauge interest and see if people would like to see a editor, which cost $0, but is funded by video Ads so that information can be purchased to support more OS's and ECUs while costing the end user, $0... zilch... nada. It does not exist yet, its an idea to see if the people like it.

As Envyous Customs, I would just have a credit based system and move forward, but my clientele are different to that of OBDX. OBDX is designed to make as cheap as humanly possible tuning tools. LS Droid on the other hand, makes nothing, no ads, no donations, nothing. I developed the E38/E67 read and write kernel which is going into lsdroid for free, I guess I should pull that then since you might steal it so its better just held onto myself? Even speaking of those ecus, XDFs don't exist for them at all, we will be buying the information to put into the editor which will cost you $0, just a moment of your time with an Ad.

So while your comment sounds valiant to think a single XDF for a single OS is something we want, unfortunately its not. We will be adding a small hand full of parameters and tables for many different OS's, not just one. You, and you alone, are only hurting the people which is your choice.
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Re: Mother of all 7603 XDF files

Post by Tazzi »

Gampy wrote:Read post 1 ... It has been edited and a statement made as to why it has been removed.

Not sure I understand how it is affected by Envyous Customs plans though ...

But if I had to take a wild guess, I'd say it has to do with a license and viewtopic.php?f=26&t=6416&p=113667#p113667 ...
Technically, nothing to do with Envyous Customs... Im still tinkering around with Holdens here.

I believe the OP is confused between the companies/people at hand:

1) LS Droid - Made by Pete, 100% free. Closed source but no ads, no donations, nada. Made to allow read and writing to ECUs 100% free. Its his baby, he builds it the way he envisions it.

2) Envyous Customs - Me, this is my lively hood. No Envyous, No me. Its a business and must make money for me to live. I make Scantools and diagnostic software for GM and Holden vehicles. I also post a huge amount of things I find or work on online to either help or keep a written dialogue of my progress over time so others (one day) may follow in my footsteps.

3) OBDX Pro - Pete and I. This was made out of necessity to produce a cheap flash tool to be used with LS Droid and PCMHammer, along with working with all OBD2 ELM complaint software for diagnostics and logging. OBDX Pro is also a company, and must make profit to survive. It is not a "not-for-profit" company, since we invest countless thousands into prototyping and development. This company is all about making affordable tuning tools, and hopefully an editor which is free to use ($0). The editor will clearly make money from ads, but this is to then purchase the many thousands of $$ required to support more OS's, or hire individuals to perform the R&D for us. The OP is upset at the idea of an Ad based editor, which cost the end user $0. Personally, I am amazed something like this hasnt been made before, it no only makes tuning still free for the community, but allows support of more OS's over time.

Im quite amazed how quickly the OP is to jump to conclusions that I (Me personally) want the XDF. Those XDF's floating around are used by hundreds of people selling services for profit. Yet, this doesnt affect me nor do I care.
We are aiming at purchasing vetted definitions which are designed from A2L's (GM definition files) to add support for OS's that have absolutely zero support currently. Along with moving into newer ecus such as the E38, E67, E92 ect which have zero support for any XDFs currently. :thumbup:
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Re: Mother of all 7603 XDF files

Post by persingc »

Based on what purchasing legitimate A2L files from GM or at least the figure I've seen floating around costs. There is zero chance you could purchase them for all of the OSs like you claimed based off ad revenue. Pennies per ad view at best means maybe a $2-$3 per vehicle. You can answer this question since your existing app contacts the server when loaded how many times does it get hit per month? Double that figure and multiple by per view ad revenue since you want an ad for read and write. I bet the expected revenue isn't enough to fund a single A2L. Which only leads to you gaining that information based off others hard work. I'm certain a fair amount of what we have has been gained from commercial products but again we aren't attempting to make money from it like you are. You keep saying $0 or free but what that really means is the user IS the product you are selling to the advertisers. Your server based app concept is only beneficial to you being able to install whatever code you want on your users computers. Notice how none of the major players are like this? Like I said on FB this sounds EXACTLY like what happened when HPT started out many years ago. Look I like your hardware, but your "concern" for those bricking their pcms is misguided at best. If the users can't do the required research to make the existing products work then they probably shouldn't be tuning an efi engine.
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Re: Mother of all 7603 XDF files

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persingc wrote:Based on what purchasing legitimate A2L files from GM or at least the figure I've seen floating around costs. There is zero chance you could purchase them for all of the OSs like you claimed based off ad revenue. Pennies per ad view at best means maybe a $2-$3 per vehicle. You can answer this question since your existing app contacts the server when loaded how many times does it get hit per month? Double that figure and multiple by per view ad revenue since you want an ad for read and write. I bet the expected revenue isn't enough to fund a single A2L. Which only leads to you gaining that information based off others hard work. I'm certain a fair amount of what we have has been gained from commercial products but again we aren't attempting to make money from it like you are. You keep saying $0 or free but what that really means is the user IS the product you are selling to the advertisers. Your server based app concept is only beneficial to you being able to install whatever code you want on your users computers. Notice how none of the major players are like this? Like I said on FB this sounds EXACTLY like what happened when HPT started out many years ago. Look I like your hardware, but your "concern" for those bricking their pcms is misguided at best. If the users can't do the required research to make the existing products work then they probably shouldn't be tuning an efi engine.
We are purchasing definition files based off of A2L's that a 3rd party generates. This makes our cost lower, rather then trying to buy full A2Ls for every OS, but clearly is going to cost us upfront to add basic stuff in the beginning.
Just like our initial investment into OBDX for the scantools, the money didnt just come out of thin air, it was directly form our own pockets. Same is going to happen with the editor.

LS Droid is NOT my app. It is Petes. He doesn't make anything from it. It is not owned by OBDX, and is not controlled by it in anyway.
The Editor is not designed for just LS Droid, but any flashing application which could include PCM Hammer, tuner cats or anything else that accepts a bin.

Your comments are extremely contradicting. You are scrutinize OBDX (and me) for the idea of trying to keep tuning free, while adding future support. The end user has to watch an Ad, but would you rather pay for an ECU? How else do you think we can fund definitions? This is the best method we could come up with, the end user just watches an ad (Just like found on FB, or free games) and allows continued used without costing them anything, the end user does end up being the product, but I do not see any other way around BUYING information without being permanently out of pocket?

Its not going to make gazillions, but with a couple thousand people using it, even at $0.20 a person, this will allow buying definitions, or at least small handfuls of parameters/tables every week or 2. I don't expect their to be much people using at start, and OBDX will have to use ITS PROFITS from the cables to pay for initial defs or hiring someone, but eventually (I would hope) could generate enough to continue funding more definitions instead of costing OBDX money. This is only possible from OBDX being a company and having profits. I still to this date have not taking a dime from OBDX, every last dollar has gone back into R&D on new tool designs or development software, but I am ok with not being paid back with what I invested since we have made something that has helped alot of people.

Now, just because it doesnt LOOK like its going to make stupid money, doesnt make it not viable, we have never been in it to extort stupid dollars form people, as per our scantool. But the people we have made connections with understand what we are trying to achieve, which is why they are brokering such deals with us so we can slowly add information.

As for the server side, this is MY CHOICE to maintain a server that holds the definitions which allows automatically updating the end users definition database when new parameters or tables are added. This prevents them from having to download a 50-100mb application every single time to have a few tables or parameters added. Its seamless and requires the end user to do nothing to get the latest options.
The server could even eventually (Once I get help with ASP.net), turn into a browser based editor, so that could run off a smartphone or tablet too.

As for an app that will "install whatever code you want on your users computers", its illegal to produce and distribute malware/virus/ect in Australia, that is a jail sentence. Why on Earth would OBDX do that?
OBDX Pro is an actual company, that must follow rules and laws. Why would be produce a scantool to then just randomly produce malware? There is no logic in any of that.

HPT promised to make a cheap interface a free software for the people. They didnt deliver either of those.
OBDX on the other hand, we promised a cheap tool, we did it. We are now TRYING to come up with a solution for a $0 spent (only time spent) way to afford definitions in the future. How many places can you count in the world that are OPENLY explaining how the hell they are getting definitions and affording it?


Finally, this statement right here, is exactly why we do not care about XDFs:
persingc wrote:I'm certain a fair amount of what we have has been gained from commercial products but again we aren't attempting to make money from it like you are
We are buying formation from GMs definition files. This is what commercial companies such as efilive,hptuners and tuner cats do also. The difference is, Im not asking YOU for $50 an ecu, I have suggest $0.. and 30seconds of your time. If your 30seconds of time is worth more then $50 for an operating system not available in XDF format, then you would be best buying one of the commercial tuners.

You are also talking about ONE operating system. There are quite literally 100's over all the ECUs. I personally, do not care about 1 OS. I would rather have a dozen parameters/tables on 100 operating systems, then 1 OS with multiple hundreds of options, where 99% of which would not be used.

At the end of the day, OBDX Pro is a company, it will make a profit on what it provides to survive. But, it doesnt mean it has to extort people, and doesnt mean it can't achieve it through unconventional means like an Ad based editor so maintain a $0 per ecu tuning experience.
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Re: Mother of all 7603 XDF files

Post by Gampy »

Tazzi wrote:I believe the OP is confused between the companies/people at hand:
I most definitely was, thank you for the clarification ...
I thought you were all one and the same, sorry!

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