TunerPro RT and Moates QuarterHorse for bench work file read

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ATPCR
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cars: Many Fords from 1954 to 1999
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TunerPro RT and Moates QuarterHorse for bench work file read

Post by ATPCR »

Hello to all of you. I'm glad that there is a Ford section here, and I hope posting in the TunerPro section is appropriate.
Recently I purchased one of the last Moates QuarterHorse and TunerPro RT. My 5.0 project has been moving along slowly for various reasons, so I'm unable to install the Moates QH device and do the first act of real time tuning, making what I think is called an xdf file. I have been overloading my brain off and on since this past February as I try to find out more. I have used a whole lot of search terms and finally understand the EEC-IV and EEC-V aspect of it. I'm working with EEC-V PCMs from 1998 to 2003.
I have read that @DWS wants some stock EEC-V files. I'm very new at this but I have made a bench test adapter with an OBDII port adapter on one end and a 104 pin PCM connector on the other end. It has a key on/key off switch and supply cord to hook up to a steady 13 volt DC power source. I can hook to the PCM just to power it and leave the OBDII end disconnected.
So I want to bench read my first test PCM with the Moates QH and TunerPro RT. IIRC the files will come out as 256K files with a 0189 bank order. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I believe the will come out different with a passthru device and PCMFlash.
Maybe DWS or one of you other ford guys can help me step my way through this. I will be able to have 3 or 4 stock files including 1998 Explorer V-6, 1999 and 2003 Crown Vic and I have another 2003 Crown Vic PCM with a different catch code. These all have PATS. I'm driving a 1997 Explorer V-6 4.0 SOHC that was the last year on NON PATS. I would have to remove it from the vehicle to QH read it, however soon I will be able to use a pass-thru device and PCMFlash.
I do have all of the appropriate software/s installed for the Moates QH. The TunerPro RT program is recognizing the Moates QH when the Moates battery is installed. Thanks for any help.
moatesqhdel.jpg
Last edited by ATPCR on Wed Dec 06, 2023 8:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.
DWS
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Re: TunerPro RT and Moates QuarterHorse for bench work file

Post by DWS »

From what I've seen:

EEC-IV (version 4) is 1995 and older computers, basically OBD1 as some people call it. I think those can't be flashed and use an EPROM from the factory. However they have the J3 connector that the QH uses, so that has a flash chip to hold code and to be used for tuning etc. Basically you leave the QH in all the time, and remove if you want to revert to stock.

EEC-V (version 5) is 1996+ roughly 2004ish for a lot of models and is Ford PWM and 2004+ era is CanBus communication (both OBD2 standards). This one you can flash the inside memory chip, but it's a slow process, the QH makes it faster and the live tuning is something only the QH can do of my understanding. This computer allows you to tune with QH, then flash the actual computer inside chip and use the QH on another EEC-V, or you can keep it installed with the remove for stock feature.

The XDF file you're talking about is the definition for where the data is stored within the raw dump of the computer's code. Like the pats disable flash (0 or 1) might be 1000 bytes into the file, the XDF is what defines that. Someone has to reverse engeneer the code to find those addresses though and define how the numbers work and such, like the pats example the raw data is 0x00 or 0x01 in hex which trans lates to a simple 0 or 1, but in the software, it could be in a more human readable format, true/false, or enabled/disabled. Other tables the math is more complicated, so it's a more critical thing to know what 0x3E52 represents. You'll need the XDF for your exact computer, the main item is the strategy which is basically which version of the software it uses, so the settings are all in the same locations.

The bench harness should mainly be for flashing the actual inside chips for the computer, or just for powering the computer on. I'm pretty sure all of the QH features you'd be wanting to use is done through the QH USB connection. Doesn't hurt to have the extra option of using OBD2, that can validate the computer isn't crashed from the edits and communicates with an OBD2 scanner.

I'm pretty sure most people install the QH, then install the computer in their car. USB to their laptop, key on to power the computer up and use it that way. I don't have a QH so don't know the details super well though.

For the bank ordering and file size, yes different software uses different formats. I'm kind of shocked they didn't standardize to 0,1,8,9 since that's just the natural order, but each programmer chose their format lol. That's why I made my website for converting the formats. The size difference is just padding (junk data effectively) and the bank order is just the 4 different segments in a different order.

FYI, of my experience, PCM flash doesn't work with 96-97 EEC-V computers, it seems like their format is unique. I've worked with the dev a little and he has some code for poking around at reading EEC-IV computers over OBD2, but the already made code kind of half worked for the 96-97 computers I have. BE can read/write them it seems like, but you don't end up with a raw bin file so you're locked into using BE and if there's a failed write and the recovery attempts don't work out, you're stuck paying for another license of my understanding.

I've personally done pats off for 03 vic's before, that's the exact year that I have for a test car lol. I also have a test setup on a 3.0L taurus which I've tested a pats off flash on an explorer computer, I don't recall the year though. I've seen 4 major versions of the pats code so far, more might exist within the 98-03 era. Technically 2 of them are very similar, just the flag for disabling pats is broken in one version and required the code to be patched with out looking into the code deeper.

Anyway, I replied to your PM so I think that covers most things, but I'm sure there's more. Sadly there's a lot of info out there about software/hardware that doesn't exist any more. BE, PCMFlash, and TunerPro seems to be the big 3 still kicking and I don't think any of them will be going away any time soon. Sadly Moates shut down, of my understanding the guy running the site basically wanted to retire from the work which I completely understand, too bad it was such a sudden cut off though. You can use the way back machine (internet archive) to view the Moates website from before it went away. I don't think there was much info though. The place you bought the QH from might have more details for you though, like a user manual would be handy I'm sure.

Personally I like the passthrough setup and PCMFlash, but I'm also wanting to work with raw bin files, but it seems like a lot of software in the tuning world wants to make encrypted versions to save the data so you can't use other software. Kind of annoying, but I understand the incentive behind it. I think with TunerPro the QH read should be in a raw bin file though. BE does edit the data in the computer when you make changes (beyond what you change) which breaks some detection software for bank ordering and padding. I don't recall if my website detects that or not, but I saw that while making the code for the site.

Hopefully that gets you kick started in the right direction. The big first steps will be getting where you can read your bin file and make a backup of it so you always have the stock option to go back to. After that, I'd say the next step is to find the XDF or pay for BE and make an easy to test edit like make the rev limiter 3000 rpm and save it to the computer and test the rev limiter to be sure it actually took. Once you're reading and writing, then your main limitations are your ability in tuning and what the software you're using to edit the bin has for defined settings (BE does have a LOT). FYI, all of this is done by people, so there's always a risk of mistakes. I'd always suggest testing changes as you go, don't make many changes all at once. Also when you get something working the way you like (say the trans shift pattern 1st into 2nd for an example), make a backup of the file and add the feature you worked out in the name so you can reference it encase something messes things up.
Ford EEC-V Bin Converter (bank swapping and padding): viewtopic.php?f=41&t=8342
ATPCR
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cars: Many Fords from 1954 to 1999
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Re: TunerPro RT and Moates QuarterHorse for bench work file

Post by ATPCR »

Thanks, I read this after reading the message and replying. That's good to hear about the 2003 Crown Vic usage. My first project is based off of a 1999 Crown Vic and before I knew anything about any of this, I acquired a 1999 Crown Vic ARA1 PCM. That was my PATS work around before I knew that PATS could be switched off. I do have 3 2003 Crown Vic PCMs and looking for a powertrain harness for the 2nd project.
Thanks for the help and I will share the results of test #2 after replacing the pesky switch and using the test PCM,
Ford part #F87F-12A650-BJB, hardware code ML2-406 and catch code of PPG1.
DWS
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Re: TunerPro RT and Moates QuarterHorse for bench work file

Post by DWS »

Yea ARA1 is a police car computer which is factory pats off (the code still exists to enable it). Since it's for a different car, it can have different calibrations, if I remember right 04 was a conflicting year for crown vic vs police interceptor. I have a few computers from crown vics 98-03, 98-02 is different than 03 though, the fuel system changed design.

I jumped in BE and PPG1 they do cover. I looked it up on the site below and it comes up as a 1998 Ford Explorer with a 4.0L engine.

http://www.obdtester.com/ford-ecu-updat ... 12A650-BJB

That computer shows in BE as having PATS enabled by default.

I checked the explorer computer I bought, and it's a NHS1 which is for a 2003 so probably to far apart to be able to flash your bin on it and do testing, but poking at the bin would help me with the dev on the projects I'm working on if you can get it.

Shoot over the 3 crown vic catch codes when you get a chance, fair chances at least one of them will match what I have. I think I have 2 different ones on hand and could do testing on my end if needed. I should be able to pats off any of those though, but one of the computers I recently bought doesn't seem to match with any of my pats detection codes, so either a 5th version of the code, or I have something I missed for making it a universal catch.
Ford EEC-V Bin Converter (bank swapping and padding): viewtopic.php?f=41&t=8342
ATPCR
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2023 11:39 pm
cars: Many Fords from 1954 to 1999
Location: north of Huntsville Alabama
Contact:

Re: TunerPro RT and Moates QuarterHorse for bench work file

Post by ATPCR »

I you are interested, I have some other stock bin files too. They are from the later years of OBD2/EEC-V.
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