PCMHacking Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)

Holden/Delco Tuning. ALDL, OBD 1.5. Circa 1989 to 2004.
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PCMHacking Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)

Post by antus »

Last FAQ update 2023-08-07

Q. What is the FAQ?
A. FAQ stands for 'frequently asked questions'. There is also a bunch of guides with useful information and other things to steer you in the right direction. Have a look below and use search on this page to try and answer your questions before posting on the forums.


v1.04 2014-06-29:
PCMHACKING hardware and software guide V104.pdf
An overview of what operating systems we have, what capabilities they have and what hardware is needed. A good place to start if you know what you want to do but need to be pointed to the right places on the site. Now also includes a section describing factory Memcals, whats in them, our ECM NVRAM and PCM NVRAM.
(516.28 KiB) Downloaded 15265 times

Guide to Burning Memcals, Nvrams ETC
EEPROM Burning Bin Stacking and Verifying Data Guide.pdf
Version 1.02
(732.52 KiB) Downloaded 6898 times
Tunerpro RT Datalogging & OSEPlugin Getting Started Guide
Tunerpro RT Datalogging & OSEPlugin Guide.pdf
Version 1.05
(731.35 KiB) Downloaded 7897 times
How to flash an Enahnced bin in to a VX or VY commodore
Thanks, RKGarage! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsIQPc_oe1Y



OSE11p (11P)

OSE12p (12P)

The1's Enhanced (For PCM computers)

OSE Flashtool (aka delco flashtool)

Tuner Pro

VZ V6 E55 ECU Brute Force Reset Tool & PIM Relink

PCM Hammer GM P01/P59, P10, P12 PCM Flash tool
Recommended interface: https://obdxpro.com?ref=pcmhacking
Buying through this link helps support PCMHacking and future PCMHammer development



ECM Comms


ALDL Interface

GQ4x4 Eprom Programmer
http://www.mcumall.com/comersus/store/c ... oduct=4282
Alternatively any type of TL866 (a, cs, II) will work and can be sourced from ebay from sellers in various countries.

OBD XPro J2534 Interface for PCM Hammer
Recommended interface: https://obdxpro.com?ref=pcmhacking
Buying through this link helps support PCMHacking and future PCMHammer development

This and other hardware can also be found is in the for sale area


Basics of Tuning with 12P (11P is very similar, MAF tunes are less so but this is still worth a watch)
There is a guide for all the basics and general information here http://pcmhacking.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=1089

Advanced Tuning with 12P
Once you understand that and want or need to go deeper, the advanced guide is here: http://pcmhacking.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=3051

Basics of Delco PCM/ECU System including Getting Started
A Good writeup of what's contained in PCM/ECU systems and what you need http://pcmhacking.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=655

Tuning Automatic Transmission Settings in the PCM
There is a Force Motor Tuning Guide with Tips for tuning tables/scalars and interpreting logs here http://pcmhacking.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=1413

MAF Tuning helpers
PE AFR & Spark Calculations.xlsm
(24.71 KiB) Downloaded 4293 times
$51 PE Calculation.xlsx
(18.7 KiB) Downloaded 3611 times
Injector rate aka kinjflow calculator

Tuning AFRs for alternate fuels
http://pcmhacking.net/forums/viewtopic. ... 707#p66304

The car hackers handbook
Although not written or hosted by pcmhacking, this is a great guide around the skills, tools and processes you need to know to develop new tools and definitions etc.

FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions)
Thanks to all contributors for the information gathered here!

Q. What is the OSEPlugin echo setting? Can it prevent me connecting to my vehicle?
A. Some vehicle interface types echo data transmitted from the PC to the vehicle back to the PC. In this case the PC must be expecting this echo and needs to discard it before reading in the response from the car. If you have this set incorrectly you will not be able to connect, in fact this is the most common reason people with new installations cant connect to their vehicle. Some early and homebrew ECM Comms interfaces do not have an echo and for these the setting should be unchecked. However the more common type available here viewtopic.php?f=14&t=3613 and all ALDL interfaces do have echo and usually the echo checkbox must be selected.

If you are unsure you can try both settings. If you have PC skills and interest you can connect a terminal program to the com port where the interface is connected, but without the interface connected to the car. Use a speed of 8192 baud (accurate for ALDL) or 9600 (sufficient to test echo) and type stuff in. If you have an echo interface you will see your key presses coming back. If you have a no echo interface you will not see anything come back.

Q. Where can I buy new connectors for my project?
https://www.eficonnection.com/home/cate ... r-pigtails
Note that we are not affiliated with eficonnection.com. We just know they have a nice range of connectors.

Q. How do I build or setup a D1998A or D1928A DIS ignition module pickup?
http://pcmhacking.net/forums/viewtopic. ... =128#p1022

Q. Does this site have an RSS feed?
A. Yes. It is located at:

Code: Select all

Q. Where is a reference that will tell me what the factory 4 letter memcal codes mean for VN->VY, and what program ID they are based around?
A. There is a list here: http://pcmhacking.net/memcals.html

Q. How can I check the spark being delivered matches what my '808 computer thinks (vn/vp/vr/12P)?
A. Ground pin A9 "diagnostic request", also called diag request. While connected the computer will output 10 degrees, which you can measure with a timing light. If you hardware is misaligned you can adjust the reference angle in the tune (but note that this will not adjust the spark delivered when cranking, so if your timing is causing a no start situation, you will need to physically move the sensor. Only really a problem on home brew setups, but then this mode is very useful.

Q. What is VE or Volumetric Efficiency?
A. This is the measurment of how well the combustion chamber has been filled with air during intake, 100% VE means 100% fill of air, if we add the right amount of fuel and right spark timing then max torque will be achieved.

In the real world this near impossible with inlet losses, fueling and timing and exhaust back pressure all having effects on VE. Real world 75% - 90% can be achieved.

Q. How do I set up 12P for a 2 or 3 bar map sensor?
A. You need to consider 2 flags, usually in MAP A. Set selection A (and clear selection B) for 2 bar, or set selection B (and clear selection A) for 3 bar. When you next open the boost spark or VE tables you should see the correct map headings (that is up to 200 or 300kpa depending on your selections. Clear both flags to revert to 1 bar.
2bar.jpg (118.51 KiB) Viewed 210129 times
Q. What are the differences between short term fuel time STFT and long term fuel trim LTFT on MAP and MAF cars?
They actually both do the same thing. The MAP ECMs do not directly change a VE value to trim the fuel, they apply another plus/minus % correction during the fuel pulse width calc, the MAF PCMs do exactly the same during its pulse width calc.

Long term trims use the BLM (Block Learn Multiplier) and short term use the INT (integrator). During closed loop fast changes are made to the INT (either up or down depending on if its too lean or rich) when they reach a threshold the BLM gets incremented or decremented and the INT is reset to 0% correction. The process starts over adjusting the INT and if needed the BLM until the engine is running at the stoich AFR.

The BLMs are saved in a table in ram, so are learnt and remembered when you turn off the engine. There are limits to how much the BLM is allowed to adjust.

Q. BLMs dont seem to be updating, why would this be?
A. Check VE learn is not enabled. If it is, then the main VE table is updated rather than the BLM table.
Check "Block learn HIGH and LOW temp limit" are set outside of your cars running temperature, and that your car has come up to temperature. Check your coolant temp is reading correctly.
Check "closed loop minimum coolant temp" is below the cars running temp.
Check "Stoichiometric A/F ratio" is 14.7 in the areas you expect BLMs to function.

Q. How do I update from one $12P version to another?
A. You do this with the flashtool. This process assumes you have a correctly functioning NVRAM board installed in the ecu. The exact process depends on what your original version is.

1. Load the flashtool, connect to the ecu. Observe the version. The details box will show something like OSE 12 Professional V1.1.0.
2. Download the cal and save it to something like mytune-12p-v1.x.x.cal - include the version from step 1 in the file name to keep things clear.
3. Pick 'Binary Functions -> Migrate OSE Cal file -> pick version 1.1.1, and save to something like mytune-12p.-v1.1.1.cal
4. if your original version is v1.0.4 or newer skip to step 6.
5. If your original version was older than V1.0.4 then load the new tune in Tunerpro 5 with the v1.1.1 xdf file, and check the VE table. At version 1.0.4 this table was enlaged, and the flash tool inserts blank rows to stretch the table out to the new size. If you see rows of 0, then you need to average the values in the cells around it to make it smooth. You can do this in the text view or in the 3d view by holding control and pressing left/right/up/down to move the 3d graph around so you can see the point you need. clicking it, then pressing control plus and control - to move the point so that the graph looks smooth. you can cut and past the nearest row in text mode to get it close, but make sure you do smooth out the points as you will feel a jolt under WOT when the car hits the pasted row and the fueling is out.
5. Remove the NVRAM from the car, and flash any 12P v1.1.1 bin file too it. If using as DS1245Y NVRAM make sure you populate the right areas of the chip. Re-install in car, skip to step 7
6. Use the flash tool to upload any v1.1.1 bin to the car. V1.0.4 and newer are designed to allow in car program updating, and the program code will be updated. When complete switch off and on the car. You are now on v1.1.1
7. Connect to the ecu, and verify the flashtool reports OSE 12 Professional, V1.1.1. Now upload the v.1.1.1 calibration you created earler.

Thats it! From here on only use the v1.1.1 XDF and ADX files from the official v1.1.1 package.

Q. I want to be able to reprogram original memcals. What hardware do I need to do this?
A. You'll need an eprom burner, we recommend a true USB willem GQ-4X such as this one: http://www.mcumall.com/comersus/store/c ... oduct=4282
You will also need an UV Eraser, such as this one: http://www.mcumall.com/comersus/store/c ... oduct=3204
Note that if you get this style, removing the front of the door can allow the end of the memcal to be stuck in the unit, so the chip can be erased while still on the memcal. However, UV is dangerous and care should be taken to keep your eyes shielded from the light as much as possible.

Q. What is "Tip in bump spark"?
A. Tip in bump spark is for low speed drivability in a manual, between tip in bump spark and RDSC (RPM derivative spark control) it adjusts the spark to smooth throttle transitions so you you can cruise the carpark in comfort.

Q. What is this XDF ADX BIN or CAL file (and other terminology and abbreviations)?
A. These files are required to tune in Tunerpro 5.

BIN: This 'Binary' file contains exactly whats on your memcal, or rom, or nvram. It contains a calibration (your tune), and the program code. Watch out for bin files saves with OSE plugin in TP5, as for speed the plugin only reads the calibration area, and if you made the bin file yourself with this method it will be incomplete. Use VL400s flash tool to 'get bin' to get a good one. This is what you send to the ECU with the flashtool to update the program version.

CAL: This is similar to the BIN file, but only contains the CALibration are (tune). Essentially, these are tunes.

XDF: This is Tunerpro 5 definition. It tells Tunerpro what is in the Calibration. Where it is, how large it is, and how to interpret the data to make it human readable. For example a spark angle of 45 degrees for 50kpa at 2200 rpm may be a number 30 inside the cal at location 1110. This tell tuner pro all about it, so you can just open the spark table and make a change.

ADX: This is also a Tunerpro 5 definition. However this one is for the data stream that the ECU can output while it is running. It tells tunerpro how to ask the ECU for some run time info, and when it receives it how to check it for corruption and how to interpret it. It also contains dash and monitor layouts, so Tunerpro can pretty it up for you and give a bunch of guages and text you can read.

For more see the thread here: http://pcmhacking.net/forums/viewtopic. ... 2061#p2061

Q. What are BLMs?
A. 'Block Learn Multiplier', aka 'Long Term Fuel Trim' LTFT. This is a table the ECU keeps in RAM (even when the car is switched off) which the ECU can use to trim the fuel values to compensate for parts of the mechanical system that may degrade over time. Things like small air leaks, or slightly incorrect MAP readings. It monitors the O2 sensor and when certain criteria are met it will very slowly trim these values and use them to try and keep the tune good. It lives in RAM so that it works on a normal factory memcal which can not be written to by the ECU. Being 8 bit binary, the actual number stored inside the ecu has a range of 0 to 255, where 128 is the middle point. OSE12P and our newer definitions convert this to a percentage, so 100% means no adjustment, 105 is +%5 and 95 is -5%. Some older definitions use 0-255, so for those 128 is no adjustment, 135 is more fuel, and 120 is less fuel. If you see a lot of BLMs around 128 its likely that you have an older definition.

Q. How do I get my idle speed right - its too high?
A. Check the target idle speed in the dashboard in Tunerpro, and if its too far wrong (temperature etc will change this a little) set the desired idle speed to how you want it. If this is correct then you have too much air getting past your throttle body butterfly. Check for air leaks and check again. Check air plumbing piping for a way that may be letting it around the TB. Check the stop adjustment is not too far open.

Q. How do I get my idle speed right - its too low?
A. Check the target idle speed in the dashboard in Tunerpro, and if its too far wrong (temperature etc will change this a little) set the desitred idle speed to how you want it. If this is correct then open your throttle stop screw a little further to let more air in. Adjust it so that you read 20-30 steps on the IAC stepper on the dashboard in TP at the right idle speed.

Q. What do I change to set the desired idle for $12P?
A. There are 3 tables (not scalars!) and the naming does not include the word "idle" which makes them hard to find. Look in the table section for "IAC - Desired RPM in Drive Vs Battery voltage", "IAC - Desired RPM in Park/Neutral Vs Battery voltage" and "IAC - Desired RPM for Manual trans Vs Battery voltage"

Q. I have narrow or wideband VE learn enabled, but I cant see any changes at all to the VE table. Whats going wrong?
A. There are a few reasons for this. Firstly make sure you are running from NVRAM and that the write enabled jumper is set. Note that certain criteria must be met for the car to be able to VE learn - it must have been running for an amount of time (configurable), and the car must be up to temp. For narrow band only cells with a target AFR of 14.7:1 will learn, and only when it is in closed loop. Finally, Tunerpro does not expect the ecu to be updating itself. It is designed around the idea that you change things in tunerpro, then if realtime tuning hit update and send them to the ecu. If you look at the VE table in tunerpro, and the ecu has updated it, tunerpro will not know the data in the ecu has changed. You need to click 'download' to load the calibration back from the ecu to the pc, then close and re-open the VE table you are inspecting. Note that VE learn happens slowly to maintain a good average for any cell rather than putting bad data in a cell due to a momentary problem somewhere in the physical system or the environment. Dont expect it to tune the car for you. Use it only to fine tune when your VE table is closer than 1 point AFR difference.

Q. How do I enable or disable the knock filter?
A. There is no direct flag for this. Instead edit the scalar ESC params - Coolant temp enable. The knock counts will be used to pull timing above this temperature. To disable the knock filter (when it or the knock filter is not physically fitted) set this value to the maximum. To enable it again, set it to the default value of 56 degrees C.

Q. What is an XDF, ADX, BIN, CAL, ABC, or XYZ?
See the list of common abbreviations here:
http://pcmhacking.net/forums/viewtopic. ... 4029#p2489

Q. ESC - Knock Count Logging: Once I have downloaded the .bin after a run to see the knock count logging, how do I reset it before taking another run and log?
A. Its stored in the NVRAM iteslf and not RAM and is part of the calibration. Can either while emulating use the fill table with value in TP to clear it all or use the flashtool to write the cal back after editing the table in TP back to all zeros.

Q. How can I identify a knock filter?
A. The V8 Knock filters have a code beginning with 1F printed on them such as 1F9216. For many examples and for V6 numbers consult this list. If you have more examples to add, post to the end of that thread.

Q. What are the netres resistor values on '808 and '165 memcals for different cylinder configurations?
A. See here: http://pcmhacking.net/forums/viewtopic. ... t=10#p6850

Q. How do I view a log in Tunerpro 5 (xdl file)?
A. Thanks to Charlay86:
to view a log file (.xdl) in tunerpro 5, you need to also have the same ".adx" as the person who created the log.
The .xdl file has the raw data that was logged.
the .adx file defines what that raw data actually means.

As an example, let's download a log file.
Download "69mm TB Logs.zip" from here:

next we need to get an ".adx" to suit this log;
in this example we are dealing with a log file created by The1, the car is a VS v6 so we will need to go here:

Scroll down till you find this, and then download it :
Vs V6 engine and trans 1.07-tp5.adx.zip
VS $51E TP5 ADX, Engine and Trans
(9.12 KiB)

Unzip both of the files we have downloaded.
Open Tunerpro.

Under the "acquisition" menu, select "Load Definition file"
browse to the location where you unzipped the files you downloaded and then select the one called:
"Vs V6 engine and trans 1.07-tp5.adx"

Under the "acquisition" menu again, select "Load Log File..."
select one of the ".xdl" files, in this case there were two in the zip file; let's pick "work to home shift tweaking 3 TPS MOD.xdl".

once again under the "acquisition" menu select "show Dash" (or data lists, history tables etc.).

Now we're ready to play back the log file.
so, click the play button on the acquisition toolbar.

Q. What size injectors do I have? I want bigger ones for more performance.
A. Bigger injectors don't necessarily mean more performance, unless the injector duty cycle is over 80% your current injectors are fine. You can check the injector DC using logging software such as TunerPro. When upgrading injectors you must also change the ECU settings so it knows how much fuel will be injected for a given fuel pulse. A list of common injectors and sizes can be found here .. http://pcmhacking.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=1230 and a spreadsheet to convert the cc/min to something meaningful for the ECU can be found here .. http://pcmhacking.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=334

Q. The factory loom is earthed under the head bolts. On my conversion, should I use the same location or assuming my grounds are good can I run it elsewhere (eg battery gnd)?
A. They are the sensor grounds, you have to have them earthed to the engine or it will skew the sensor readings.

Q. What happens to the spark timing on factory bins with higher RPM than the top row?
A. The scalar called F1 extension slope is used to increase spark. The extension slope is degrees per 1000RPM, so if its set to 4deg and the highest RPM row is 4800 then by 5800RPM the spark advance will be 4deg higher than the 4800RPM value.

Q. What type of signal is needed for the speed sensor circuit on an 808?
A. It must be a square on the 808 but a reluctor amp (eg a JE camira etc ignition module) or a small circuit using an op-amp or an LM1815 which could convert a reluctor signal - the wave quality is not as critical as a crank pickup.

The PPK value is worked out as follows...
Pulse/k = (1000/Tyre Circ in m) * Diff Gear * PPR

Standard VN setup is 4 PPR, 3.08 diff and 1.98m rollout = 6222 (they had a divide by 5 box so the factory cal is 1250PPK).

It must be a square on the 808 but a reluctor amp (eg a JE camira etc ignition module) or a small circuit using an op-amp or an LM1815 which could convert a reluctor signal - the wave quality is not as critical as a crank pickup.

Q. How do I calculate a PPK change when I change my diff ratio?
A. See viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5670#p84421

Q. How does torque management work on pcms with that support it, and/or have burst knock retard?
A. From what I can tell the torque management strategy works by first calculating an estimate of the torque. It uses the airflow and RPM along with a few modifiers, the max torque table is just to limit the airflow for the calculation (it normlly just uses the measured airflow). The ECU retards timing using the excess torque table (which may or may not be zero'd out depending on the tune)

Burst knock retard is worth disabling (enabled on S/C and disabled on NA), it pulls timing on sudden throttle movements to help prevent knock - if no knock occurs it pulls a little less (the offset item).

Q. What chatter is on a VT data bus?
A. http://pcmhacking.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=724

Q. I want to run coil packs on my 4 or 6 cylinder conversion of a previously non-delco car. How to do this?
A. See this thread: http://pcmhacking.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=128

Q. Im trying to use a non-delco TPS sensor, and I am geting an analog reading, but with the wrong range. How do I fix this?
A. See this thread: http://pcmhacking.net/forums/viewtopic. ... 206#p21165

Q. I want to run boost on my ecotec. What are the options?
A. You can leave everything stock, and install a factory supercharged tune. This will give you up to 6psi, and you can probably get away with 7 or 8, which is about as much as your stock engine head gaskets will take. If your engine will take more boost, then the next step up is to run one of the The1's enhanced bins. For more information see the thread here: http://pcmhacking.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=2518

Q. I want to run more than 8psi boot on my ecotec. Can I tune the factory tune further or install a bigger maf?
A. Yes. The1 has successfully modified the factory bins to support this. See here: http://pcmhacking.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=2518

Q. Ive changed things and my AFRs are out. Can I adjust the fuel pressure to compensate?
A. Not really. You cant go far without causing other problems, and it will create more problems than it solves. The injectors and the tune will be running out of spec, and the whole thing is a balance between many factors. Chaning that one will break the relationships with data from other engine sensors. Especially dont increase the fuel pressure above 4.5 bar unless you are really sure what your doing is safe. The fuel system is not designed for it, and fuel leaks and engine bay fires are likely. If you need more fuel, upgrade the injectors, and adjust the injector rate in the tune. This will keep everything balanced. If you need just a bit more fuel and you are tuning to suit, you can raise the pressure just a little, and adjust the injector rate to compensate while keeping everything balanced. This will gain you a little headroom. But probably not enough to be usefull. Instead an injector upgrade and calibration fix for the documented injector rate at the correct fuel pressure is recommended.

Q. Im working with a factory program, and if I run the factory bin as is, the car runs, but if I change something and try to start it, then its a no start. What might this be?
A. This is usually a checksum issue. The checksum is a number that is calculated based on the contents of the tune. When the pcm starts up, it'll calculate the same number from whats in the tune and compare it against the saved copy. If they dont match, it will prevent the car from starting as it assumes that the memcal is damaged and the intent here is to prevent engine damage. Some XDF files calculate the checksum for you when you save the bin, and with those tunes you will not have this problem. Other ones dont (or cant) and when you change something on purpose, you get the checksum mismatch, and no run. In this case, to bypass the checksum test set the program id (which is an item in the xdf to AA. If you can not enter AA the xdf is probably set up for decimal, in which case enter 127. This signals the checksum test not to run, and the car will start.

Q. My logs are 'jumping' when my car goes over a bump. My laptop is a toshiba, HP, or Compaq. What could cause this?
A. http://pcmhacking.net/forums/viewtopic. ... =20#p24388

Q. I have a vehicle with a BCM. Its a pain having to remove it everytime I wish to tune, I'd prefer to just put a switch on the BCM data line. Where is the data line?
A. http://pcmhacking.net/forums/viewtopic. ... 059#p19702

Q. I want to set up a VR/VS High level BCM on the bench, what pins do I need?
The1 wrote:Yep these are the pins.

+ = C1
- = C2
Data = B7
More info here: http://pcmhacking.net/forums/viewtopic. ... 679#p26820

Q. I want to set up a VX/VY PCM on the bench, what pins do I need?
A. http://pcmhacking.net/forums/viewtopic. ... 152&p=4323

Q. What is the logic for the fan speed control in 12P?
yoda69 wrote:The fan will be on if Coolant Temp is/has been greater than the fan on temp and is yet to meet the 5 or 6C hysterisis to turn off, regardless of vehicle speed. ie.100km/h hot day towing the fan will be on if it is required regardless of vehicle speed.
The speed control will only work if you have AC On and the Coolant Temp is below the fan on temp when you are above 55km/h in your case.
Q. I have a noticed a DTC 92 when logging, how do I clear it?
yoda69 wrote:DTC 92 is low speed fan fault.
This will be set any time you log data as it is controlled by the BCM which has been told to be silent when logging.
Basically PCM expects low speed fan information from BCM, as BCM has been told to be silent it doesn't send the info, the PCM logs DTC92 and turns on the high speed fans. This will happen every time you log and is normal.
If it happens when not logging and high speed fans are running constantly you have a problem that needs fixing.
Q. Im trying to decrease clutch slip in my 4L60E box, but no matter what I set the PSI to (and ive wound it up and up to 90) but it still slips too much? What do the amps mean?
The1 wrote:if it's set to 90psi in that area and still slipping then most likely the clutches are worn out or fluid is bad.

in the datalogs should be commanded and actual force motor amps. If it does not match within 160milliamps then a dtc will be logged.

0.15 amps is 90psi 1.1amps is 0psi.
Q. Can I use a VS auto bin on a VR auto?
A. No.

What are the different auto transmissions on the VR and VS commodores?
VL400 wrote:The VR bin has all the TCC PWM code in there, its to make the TCC lockup smoother, just was never used until later. Id say its going to be a case of going through a VS bin and loading it to a VR bin if you want that function setup the same (there are some cal settings done for TCC PWM in a VR bin). Running a VS bin on a VR will cause an error to be set, but like jayme said I dont think it happens the other way around running a VR bin on a VS.

Setting up a fully featured XDF for all the different VR and VS bins is a very large job :thumbdown:

Here are the different variants of trans too...
VR 1994 - 4HDD/V6 - 4HBD/V8 first electonically controlled auto.
VR II 1995 - 5HDD/V6 - 5HBD/V8 extra solenoid fitted to provide softer "LOCK UP" torque converter clutch apply.
VS 1996 - 6HDD/V6 - 6HBD/V8 the design of the previously added solenoid was changed and is not backwards compatible with the previous model.
VS II 1997-7HDD/V6 - 7HBD/V8 basically the same as the 1996 unit except the thread size of the cooler pipe unions was enlarged.
Q. Can I use a VR auto bin on a VS? Whats the best code to use for a VS auto?
Jayme wrote:Use the $11 bin and xdf in the VS V8 autos. As long as you turn vats off it works fine.
Note that VATS aka Vehicle Anti Theft System, is called "anti-theft" in 11P. Search for "theft", not VATSs in tunerpro to find it (ctrl+f).
Also see the next question.

Q. What is VATS? Why would I need to change it? What are the gotchas on VR and VS?

VATS is short for Vehicle Anti Theft System. You may need to disable this when using the delco computer on a different car or engine, such a track car or conversion.

VATS is a flag, sometimes also called anti theft, which you can toggle to disable this functionality.

The Delco computer disables the injectors until it has verified the correct key is present. In a VR and VS commodore there is also a secondary function where the BCM module grounds the starter relay. On these models, for applications such as a track car with a push button start, physical modification of this circuit is also required.

Q. What type of PWM is the $12P flex outputs?
A. Its electrically a low side (ground side) driver.
It is a static 32hz, with 0-100% duty cycle programmable against anything in the ecus data stream.
It is suitable to drive solenoids and electronic engines
It is not suitable for most PWM signalling applications (eg PWM IAC)
Safe current draw from the ecm is around 500ma.

Q. How do I recalibrate a VN speedo?

The original article was hosted at http://members.ozemail.com.au/~brettsue ... ometer.htm but has since been removed.
There is also a complete copy with pics archived here: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=5487#p81671

Technical text is copied below:

The Commodore speedo has the 200 km/h position at 180 degrees from the 0 km/h position and the HZ speedo has the 140 km/h position at 180 degrees from the 0 km/h position. Therefore if the speedo was not recalibrated and the speedo was reading 140 km/h then the car would really be doing 200 km/h.

I set up a signal generator to provide a 0 to +12V square wave at a frequency corresponding to 140 km/h. This was calculated by:

(6250 x 140) / 3600 = 243 Hz.

This signal was then applied to the pulse input of the speedo electronics box and, as expected, the speedo indicated just under 100 km/h.

(140 / 200) x 140 = 98 km/h

I then found that the 39 kohm resistor located beside the driver IC on one of the circuit boards was responsible for the calibration of the meter movement. By trial and error I found that by increasing the resistance to 57 kohms (adding 18 kohms in series), made the speedo indicate correctly, 140 km/h.

Linearity was then checked by halving the input frequency and checking that the indicated speed was halved. No error was noticed.
Q. What is this bin stacking splitting or offset thing mentioned in regards to burning memcals and eproms

See this thread:
http://pcmhacking.net/forums/viewtopic. ... 343#p38333

Q. How do I Make a GQ4x work on Windows 8 and above?

Source and more info from ZLM in this thread:

The Windows 8 only accepts the fully digital signed driver.

Temporary disable the digital signature enforcement will let you install the USB driver.

Here are the steps:

From the Metro Start Screen, open Settings (move your mouse to the bottom-right-corner of the screen and wait for the pop-out bar to appear, then click the Gear icon).

Click "More PC Settings"

Click "General"

Scroll down, and click "Restart now" under "Advanced startup"

Wait a bit.

Click "Troubleshoot"

Click "Advanced Options"

Click "Windows Startup Settings"

Click Restart.

When your computer restarts, select "Disable driver signature enforcement (choice 7)from the list. You can now load the driver. Reboot again once the driver is installed and all will be well.

Be sure to run as an administrator.

Q. How do I identify pins on a Delco ECM/PCM? How do I remove remove from the connector?
http://pcmhacking.net/forums/viewtopic. ... 506#p40471

also videos and pics by bigvl at:

Q. What equations would I need to put in to an ADX on a 2 or 3 bar MAP tune to display boost PSI?
http://pcmhacking.net/forums/viewtopic. ... 509#p41440

Q. I cant write to my NVRAM, what should I check?
If it is on an '808 or a '165, check the write wire on the back of the pcm is present and connected.
For all NVRAM products, check the RW (read/write) pins have a jumper across them.
Check for bent pins inside the ecm/pcm header.
For OSE12P and OSE11P you can log the pcm and see if it thinks the NVRAM is writeable, see this post:
http://pcmhacking.net/forums/viewtopic. ... ire#p41699
Also, avoid counterfeit products from other sources, especially the NVRAMs chips themselves. These are generally made with low quality hardware and are not automotive grade. Consequently they have a very high failure rate and will cost you lots of time.

Q. How can I correct my speedo? What is a good speedo corrector? What can the Jaycar speedo corrector part number AA-0376 do?
Helical has provided some information about a good Australian option here:
Another thread on the subject with better options:
Most reports state the current Jaycar units do not work, avoid.

Q. I have an idea about micro controllers, embedded systems and assembly language and I want to try and define an data stream to build an ADX. How would I go about that?
http://pcmhacking.net/forums/viewtopic. ... 555#p42351

Q. Where can I get an aftermarket or generic VSS sender to use on my conversion?
See this thread for options: http://pcmhacking.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=145

Q. How can I convert my VS Auto PCM to accept a VSS signal from a T5 Manual?
http://pcmhacking.net/forums/viewtopic. ... =40#p15740

Q. How would I wire a VT PCM in to my car to replace a VX or VY flash pcm?

Q. What is Acceleration Enrichment 'AE' in 12P?
http://pcmhacking.net/forums/viewtopic. ... =50#p43989

Q. How do the two crank pulse width tables work in $51?
http://pcmhacking.net/forums/viewtopic. ... 648#p44026

Q. How do I tune the PE (power enrichment) tables in a MAF tune?
With the xdf helper spreadsheets at the top of this page. See here for details:
http://pcmhacking.net/forums/viewtopic. ... =10#p45152

Q. I am using 12P with a wideband controller analog output connected to pin D8 but there is an AFR offset. Why?
The ECU has a pull down resistor, some wideband controllers cannot drive this load. See her for details on removing it...
http://pcmhacking.net/forums/viewtopic. ... 237#p47237

Q. How do I use a second factory coolant sensor to log additional temperature data?
http://pcmhacking.net/forums/viewtopic. ... 838#p47637

Q. When setting injector dead times on VS to VY do I copy the injector data I have straight in to the tune? Or, I did copy the injector data straight in to the tune, yet my fueling is not what I expect?
A. Yes, VS-VY have 0.5ms of dead time built in, so you must subtract this from factory data. See the1's explanation here: http://pcmhacking.net/forums/viewtopic. ... 110#p46730

Q. I want to flash my vx or vy flash pcm, what is the safest way to do so?
A. Read the full procedure here: http://pcmhacking.net/forums/viewtopic. ... t=40#p6472
Note1: Use write cal for calibration changes, and ONLY use write bin as a 1 off when you are changing the operating system (this procedure is more risky and can brick the pcm if power or comms is removed while the OS is being written).
Note2: Checksums need to be calculated on the pcm after changes are written. The flashtool will ask you if you wish to do so at the end of the write process. Be sure to wait for this dialog and let the flashtool fix the checksum.

Q. I have flashed my vx or vy pcm with vl400's delco flash tool, and now I can not connect the pcm! What to do?
A. Occasionally the PCM locks up after a flash. If this happens to you disconnect the battery for a couple of minutes, or the engine power fuse. This will let the pcm reset and assuming no other problems it will respond again.

Q. Will a traditional coil signal reading tacho work with a coilpack? Can I make it work?
A. Sometimes they work, but often they dont. You can make up a small circuit based on a relay to convert the coilpack tacho output to one which the tacho expects. Just remove the bar from the inside of the tacho so it does not buzz. See the circuit here: http://pcmhacking.net/forums/viewtopic. ... 551#p21551

Q. VN Series 1 and VN Series 1.5+/VP cam specs
http://pcmhacking.net/forums/viewtopic. ... 011#p50731

Q. What applications used the T42 T43 and T68 auto transmission controllers?
http://pcmhacking.net/forums/viewtopic. ... 860#p50963

Q. How can I get an electronic speedo pulse from a trimatic transmission? Or some other cable only transmission?
This is an option but possibly not the only one. Keep in mind other in-line cable sender options exist.
http://pcmhacking.net/forums/viewtopic. ... da2#p51156

Q. The ABS light is stuck on, on my VT or VX commodore. How can get more information?
Thanks to brett_jjj on just commodores http://forums.justcommodores.com.au/vt- ... ls1-2.html

Code: Select all

    Heres a list of ABS/ETC error codes for VT to VY, but these codes can only be flashed up by bridging the terminals 5 and 12 in the diagnostic connector on VT and VX models, for other models, you will need a suitable scantool to read these codes.

    Code 12= Start up code/ system ok.
    Code 21= Front right wheel speed sensor faulty signal.
    Code 23= Front right wheel speed sensor short or open circuit.
    Code 25= Front left wheel speed sensor faulty signal.
    Code 27= Front left wheel speed sensor short or open circuit.
    Code 28= Front wheel speed sensor frequency incorrect.
    Code 31= Rear right wheel speed sensor faulty signal.
    Code 33= Rear right wheel speed sensor short or open circuit.
    Code 35= Rear left wheel speed sensor faulty signal.
    Code 37= Rear left wheel speed sensor short or open circuit.
    Code 41= Front right inlet valve solenoid.
    Code 42= Front right outlet valve solenoid.
    Code 45= Front left inlet valve solenoid.
    Code 46= Front left outlet valve solenoid.
    Code 47= Priming valve solenoid.
    Code 48= Switching valve solenoid.
    Code 51= Rear right inlet valve solenoid.
    Code 52= Rear right outlet valve solenoid.
    Code 55= Rear axle inlet valve solenoid/Rear left inlet valve solenoid.
    Code 56= Rear Rear axle outlet valve solenoid/Rear left outlet valve solenoid.
    Code 61= Pump motor or relay faulty.
    Code 62= RPM signal incorrect.
    Code 63= Valve solenoid relay circuit faulty.
    Code 67= Stop light switch circuit faulty.
    Code 71= Control module internal fault.
    Code 72= Data fault.
    Code 73= Requested torque circuit fault.
    Code 74= Actual torque circuit fault.
    Code 78= Incorrect optional coding.
    Code 85= Voltage too low.

    Code 58 for gen 111= Throttle relaxer PWM interface fault.
    Code 62 for gen 111= RPM signal fault.
    Code 64 for gen 111= Throttle relaxer control module position fault.
    Code 65 for gen 111= Throttle relaxer motor fault.
    Code 66 for gen 111= Throttle relaxer control fault. 
Q. How can I log a Kalmaker W45 tune with Tunerpro?
See this thread for your options:

Q. I am running a MAF based auto tune on a manual, and it is struggling at low RPM. What can I do?
A1. Check your speed sensor is registering. If it is not and you dont have any physical problems with your sensors or wiring you have 3 options:
1) Modify your PCM (VS) to support the manual VSS http://pcmhacking.net/forums/viewtopic. ... =40#p15740
2) Install hardware which can convert the type of signal from the manual VSS to one which the computer can read.
3) Adjust the throttlebody to let in more air when fully closed;
A2. See here for differences in the tunes: http://pcmhacking.net/forums/viewtopic. ... 911#p53907
You can copy the low parts of the manual tables in to try and help. Thanks to ralcool for the investigation and the write up!

Q. How can I set spark cut on 11P or 12P?
A1. the '808 family of computers do not support spark cut. They have a hardware chip which delivers spark timing the main program has requested as required. If the timeing for the next spark is not delivered to the spark chip, then it will still spark with the same timing as last time.

A2. The '424 computer was updated to run spark from the main program, and thus 11P can do spark cut. Even for manual applications it might be worth while installing a '424, setting manual mode and running 11P if you want this feature.
For details see here viewtopic.php?f=27&t=2518&p=61208#p61208

Q. How does knock detection work for an ECM (including 11P or 12P)?

Q. How can I convert stock or Kalmaker tunes to 12P?
As discussed in several places in the forums a helper spreadsheet can be used to re-scale VE and Spark tables so that they can be brought across. For user tables see the following thread. Thanks to MAGP!
http://pcmhacking.net/forums/viewtopic. ... 165#p67132

Q. How do the various rev limit options in $12P and $11P work?

A. As Changing the rev limit is often one of the first things people try and do i'll aim this answer very generally, and describe 12P but it should be easily adapted to 11P.

First load the bin (eg OSE$12P V112 BLCD V6.BIN) and matching XDF "OSE12P V112 - 1,2 and 3 bar.xdf".

Load the XDF if you hit Ctrl+F in tunerpro and pick find "Any Parameter" "With This Phrase in the Title" Words "rev" -> Search, so that you see a list of all params with rev in the heading.
find rev options.png
find rev options.png (13.4 KiB) Viewed 160583 times
There is 1 item that you are probably looking for, and 4 you can consider. Each of them are listed twice because if you add use the MAP A / MAP B feature (which most people do not) you can have a different set of settings for the other map.

"Map A: Rev Limit - RPM Below Upper Threshold To Start Soft Fuel-Cut" Is what you are thinking of with rev limits. It defaults to 5800 RPM in the V6 tune and above that it'll do a hard fuel cut. This is the one to change for a typical rev limiter.

"Map A: Rev Limit - Soft Fuel Cut Upper RPM Threshold - Above This Is Hard Fuel Cut" This one defaults to off (0 RPM) and will cut fuel in some batches (MPI, 12P) this amount BELOW the one hard limit. So if you set this to 150, and the above to 5800 you'd get some fuel cut from 5650 - 150 below 5800. I recommend leaving this off (0).

"Map A: Rev Limit - RPM Below Upper Threshold To Start Ignition Retard" This defaults to 150 and functions similar to the above, but it pulls ignition timing as defined in the next optioin. So at 150 it'll start pulling timing from 5650 so the hard cut at 5800 is a bit more gentle on the mechanicals of the engine. In practice 150rpm happens in the blink of an eye and your unlikely to notice this happening, but it'll help your mechanicals. Some people set this to 0 and just want the hard limiter for the sound of bouncing off the limiter and they dont care about the engine.

"Map A: Rev Limit - Soft Touch Rev-Limit Advance Reduction" This is the amount of degrees pulled when in the state of ignition soft retard.

Note that other than the first setting its a mistake to put engine RPMS here. EG if you put 5800 in the hard limit (correct) and 5600 in the soft limit (incorrect) you'll get ignition retard from 5800-5600=200 rpm and above (always).

So, 150 ignition retard of 5 degrees (default) is nice and typically you should just need to set the first option "Map A: Rev Limit - RPM Below Upper Threshold To Start Soft Fuel-Cut". If you need the extra control, it is available.
12P rev limit options.png
12P rev limit options.png (65.2 KiB) Viewed 160583 times
Q. Why, when I enter a value such as 10 degrees reference angle, does the value change? or Why cant I enter my value without it changing?

A. See here viewtopic.php?f=31&t=5402&p=80678#p80678

Q. How do I make ALDLDroid (ALDL Droid) work with your ADX files and interfaces?
A. The ADX needs to be set up to use RS232 echo and have checksums turned on for the data monitored. See here: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=3841&p=80939#p80939

Q. What injector dead time settings should I used for Siemens Deka IV 60lb injectors?

AKA Injector opening time vs battery voltage
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=5548&sid=3babdada5 ... 557#p82649

Q. Can I use Imperial / Miles / Farenheight for 12P in Tunerpro?
See this thread. Thanks to K1ng0011. While all items are not covered in this XDF and there are other code bases the logic holds true when editing other XDF or ADX files too. viewtopic.php?f=8&t=5591&p=83326#p83313

Q. How do I setup the Park/Neutral switch input (B10) for 12P on an 808?
A. Thanks to Holden202T viewtopic.php?f=7&t=5671&p=84436#p84456

Q. How do I setup the second dual or high speed fan control in OSE 11P?
A. See this thread: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=5756#p85575

Q. How Can I calculate the cranking fuelling for E85 cold starts?
A. viewtopic.php?f=7&t=5736&start=40#p87826

Q. What software is needed to program the VY or VZ Cluster?
A1. VZClusterMod from l337vending.com is a open source tool which can change various options. Thanks budwizer for the pointer! viewtopic.php?f=10&t=5933#p88463 http://1337vending.com/vzclustermod/
A2. There are rumors that the factory tool from Arrow can do this. However it is not officially available to the public and is under a restrictive license which prevents us from helping you obtain it. You should use VZClusterMod instead.

Q. Im having trouble with a really unstable idle on 12P. What can I do about this?
A. There is a feature known as Idle Proportional Spark (IPS), which uses spark angle to smooth out the idle. When a car has a reasonably tame cam and no other problems this works quite well to smooth out the idle. But in cases where there is a large lumpy cam or other problems such as ignition problems causing a random miss at idle this feature can cause the idle to hunt badly. In either case you should turn this feature off. If your root cause is an ignition problem or massively incorrect VE table on a new engine transplant you can turn it back on one the problem has been fixed. The feature is controlled by scalars in the category "Idle Spark Adjustment Parameters" in 12P and can be disabled by setting "IAC - Idle spark Adjustment params - Idle spark correction limit" to 0 or by setting "IAC - Idle spark Adjustment params - IAC spark correct'n lower coolant threshold" out of range to its max value so that car is operating normally below the temperature required to enable the feature.

Q. Ive got an old 12P v1.0.4 tune and wish to migrate it to 12P v1.1.2. How do I do this?
A. The OSE Flash tool located here: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=82 is able to do this for you. Note that while the filespec is *.cal you can type *.* and hit enter to load any file. The cal portion of a bin file can be loaded this way. Note that when upgrading a cal from a bin the bin operating system part is not updated and new tables are not populated. If any tables need attention after migration you are advised by the flashtool. Once you have a new cal (or bin, with an updated cal and old operating system) it is recommended to use the flash tool and 'write cal' over ALDL in to an ECM that has the new operating system loaded. Then do a get bin to pull back a complete file for your archives.

Q. Im trying to compare different version 12P bins (eg v112 and v104) in tunerpro and the results dont look right?
A. The bin file must match the XDF. As these files are different versions it is not possible for the XDF to match both at the same time. Upgrade the v104 bin to v112 before comparing.

Q. What signals/sensors/connections are required to run a 4L60E transmission only from my pcm?
A. viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5234&p=77594#p77612

Q. I have a MAF based '165 PCM and wish to run 12P. How do I do this?
A. A good informative post by K1ng0011 with links to the right places is available here. viewtopic.php?f=8&t=6289#p93638
Also see his submitted tune with his work available here: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=5591&p=89398#p89398

Q. Which P01 or P59 PCMs have the IAC driver?
A. See this post: viewtopic.php?f=42&t=6537&start=10#p96135

Q. How do I post debug logs from PCM Hammer?
A. See this post: viewtopic.php?f=42&t=6730&start=150#p102018

Q. What is MGC?
A. viewtopic.php?f=28&t=6913#p102552

Q. How does 12P know if it has an automatic or a manual transmission attached?
A. Pin B10 needs to be connected to the auto trans switch. See viewtopic.php?f=16&t=2462&start=40#p25354

Q. How does 12P know to trigger the TCC ?
A. See the answers to the previous question. B10 must be switched as the auto changes gears to trigger auto mode. The ecm must be in auto mode to know to operate the TCC, and it also changes some other behaviour too.

Q. Does the early 808 have a date code that I can identify on the PCB or when was it made?
A. See viewtopic.php?f=7&t=7047&p=104364#p104292 - week/year near the bottom left of the back of the PCB.

Q. How to replace and relink a VZ pim with a hardware hack?
A. viewtopic.php?f=26&t=7076

Q. How to configure and calibrate a Jaycar speedo corrector model EC8189 / KC5435?
A. viewtopic.php?f=7&t=7539#p111222

Q. How do I manualise / manualize a VS v6 auto box with the1's enhanced tune?
* This general logic can be applied to to PCM hardware, provided the equivalent items are in your XDF/BIN. If you can upgrade to the'1s enhanced this is the best option.
A. viewtopic.php?f=28&t=7763#p114825

Q. How do I edit the data in a VX or VY commodore dashboard ?
A. viewtopic.php?f=13&t=7045#p115719

Q. What is the format of the segment definition XML files in universal patcher?
A. viewtopic.php?f=42&t=7854&start=10#p116685

Q. I am having trouble getting my 4L60e to shift after installing it in a car that was previously manual or hydrolic transmission. What have I missed?
A. See this post, and other information in the thread. viewtopic.php?f=7&t=8012&start=10#p118693

Q. How do I get BLMs to work in 11P or 12P?
A. viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8219&start=10#p122456

Q. What are the pins on the expansion header on the VX and VY flash PCM?
A. viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2483&start=50#p123802
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Re: Delcohacking FAQ

Post by antus »

Ive been building this faq up as time permits from questions and answers on the forums. It is ordered as it is written, as it grows I may categorise it some to keep it under control. Theres a lot more information scattered around the site than is included here so as always its a work in progress. If you find anything is incorrect or needs further clarification post to this thread and i'll try to improve the faq, or if you wish to submit a Q&A send it to me in a PM and i'll include it and provide proper credit if you wish.
Have you read the FAQ? For lots of information and links to significant threads see here: http://pcmhacking.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1396
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Re: Delcohacking FAQ

Post by vsv696 »

What are netres?
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Re: Delcohacking FAQ

Post by antus »

the chips on the memcal which contain the resistors which set the number of cylinders. presumably 'NETwork of RESistors'
Have you read the FAQ? For lots of information and links to significant threads see here: http://pcmhacking.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1396
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Re: PCMHacking FAQ

Post by antus »

Have added a pcmhacking.net harware and software guide to help get started to the top post.
Have you read the FAQ? For lots of information and links to significant threads see here: http://pcmhacking.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1396
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Re: PCMHacking FAQ

Post by antus »

Updated hardware and software guide to v1.01. Fixed error regarding VS commodore hardware.
Have you read the FAQ? For lots of information and links to significant threads see here: http://pcmhacking.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1396
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Re: PCMHacking FAQ

Post by antus »

Update hardware and software guide to v1.03. Included a new section about factory memcals and our ECM NVRAMs.
Have you read the FAQ? For lots of information and links to significant threads see here: http://pcmhacking.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1396
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Re: PCMHacking Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)

Post by The1 »

Tidied the layout and added datalogging and oseplugin getting started guide. 1.03
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Re: PCMHacking Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)

Post by The1 »

added a new guide for chip burning, bin stacking and verifying data.
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Re: PCMHacking Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)

Post by Gareth »

The1 wrote:added a new guide for chip burning, bin stacking and verifying data.
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Thankyou :D
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