ECU Help
ECU Help
Hi all. I've like some help with a project that I have. The car is a T bucket fitted with a a series 2 V6 & manual.The motor is stock accept for a set of custom headers that finish in front of the rear axle. The car is used for drag racing so part throttle isn't a problem,its all wot. At the moment we are running methanol so we get a feel for it when the engine is modified so we don't kill an expensive motor. The mods to the fuel system to cope with with Methanol so far are as follows:Series 1 injectors with the pintle drilled out to .040" (I know its ruff but it works)as opposed to the 4 .008" holes, this appears to deliver enough fuel at this stage. We will fit the appropriate sized injectors on the new engine. The memcal has been altered by friend but he is reluctant to go further so I'm looking for some help to make further adjustments. I'm sure he has bumped the timing up a little, but looking at the EGT & the AFR it looks like it could go a little further. At the last outing the exhaust gas temp seemed to be a little cool at 650/700 degrees F, AFR was lean on the hit of the throttle at .8 then richens up to a .75 at wot at 6000rpm. The o2 sensor isn't used in the system so it runs in open loop not closed. The fuel pump is an external Holden type pump which appears to keep up with the rest of it. After reading the posts on this site I think I've come to the right place for some help.
Harry
Harry
"Definition of a Drag Racer: A person who spends money he doesn't have on parts he doesn't need to impress people he doesn't know." - Grumpy Jenkins----- Poverty---
- delcowizzid
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Re: ECU Help
do you have a wideband or you just going off narrowband O2 volts cause .75 is leaner than .80 on petrol i aim for .890 for 13:1 ratio meth needs way higher and i doubt the narrowband will go high enough and its not very accurate up there either
If Its Got Gas Or Ass Count Me In.if it cant be fixed with a hammer you have an electrical problem
- Holden202T
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Re: ECU Help
yeah i think you really need a WB to tune it properly....
now im no pro on methanol engines but i do know a few things
6.4:1 is stoichiometric for methanol which means at WOT you probably want to be seeing 5:1s or even 4.5's ...
i also know methanol loves timing (very slow burning fuel) so yeah you can likely give it a good 5-10 degrees more timing than you'd have for petrol.
the injectors your using should work ok, you've effectively made them flow more ... not sure how the seals etc will hold up over time though .... same with the fuel pump, it might die an early death from it.
if you don't already have a wideband i suggest you get one, also research on the net about methanol and widebands, get a feel for where people like to tune them to, if you go rich its ok and from what i've heard from a mate that races speedway methanol being rich doesn't hurt performance that much.
if you were local i'd happily come and help you tune the thing, very interesting and good to see someone giving the methanol a run in an injected motor.
also if you are near a speedway go and see the guys there, there is a new class that runs the commodore v6's with methanol in a spint car chassis, they might have some pointers for ya!
ps.
sorry had to do it
now im no pro on methanol engines but i do know a few things
6.4:1 is stoichiometric for methanol which means at WOT you probably want to be seeing 5:1s or even 4.5's ...
i also know methanol loves timing (very slow burning fuel) so yeah you can likely give it a good 5-10 degrees more timing than you'd have for petrol.
the injectors your using should work ok, you've effectively made them flow more ... not sure how the seals etc will hold up over time though .... same with the fuel pump, it might die an early death from it.
if you don't already have a wideband i suggest you get one, also research on the net about methanol and widebands, get a feel for where people like to tune them to, if you go rich its ok and from what i've heard from a mate that races speedway methanol being rich doesn't hurt performance that much.
if you were local i'd happily come and help you tune the thing, very interesting and good to see someone giving the methanol a run in an injected motor.
also if you are near a speedway go and see the guys there, there is a new class that runs the commodore v6's with methanol in a spint car chassis, they might have some pointers for ya!
ps.
sorry had to do it
No matter what the question is, the answer is always more horsepower!
Just starting out? Have a read of the getting started guide
Basic tuning of a delco ECM with $12P thread
Advanced tuning of a delco ECM with $12P thread
Just starting out? Have a read of the getting started guide
Basic tuning of a delco ECM with $12P thread
Advanced tuning of a delco ECM with $12P thread
- delcowizzid
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Re: ECU Help
didnt they say on the stockcars they were running double size injectors on a stock tune so yeah would be a good start there for sure ill find the thread for them
If Its Got Gas Or Ass Count Me In.if it cant be fixed with a hammer you have an electrical problem
- delcowizzid
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Re: ECU Help
If Its Got Gas Or Ass Count Me In.if it cant be fixed with a hammer you have an electrical problem
- delcowizzid
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Re: ECU Help
some 36Lb supercharged injectors would double your flow or if you want a little extra headroom i know where there is some 39Lbers for sale cheap.but if you are getting serious your going to need bigger still ide say
If Its Got Gas Or Ass Count Me In.if it cant be fixed with a hammer you have an electrical problem
- Holden202T
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Re: ECU Help
yeah to be safe on a stock motor you want twice the flow, start working it and you just go up from there!
No matter what the question is, the answer is always more horsepower!
Just starting out? Have a read of the getting started guide
Basic tuning of a delco ECM with $12P thread
Advanced tuning of a delco ECM with $12P thread
Just starting out? Have a read of the getting started guide
Basic tuning of a delco ECM with $12P thread
Advanced tuning of a delco ECM with $12P thread
Re: ECU Help
Thanks for replies so far.To answer some questions above.
I'm using a wide band O2 meter.(Innovate lm-1)
I've quoted the O2 readings as Lambda which when converted to AFR . 6.4x.8=5.12 afr which is a little lean for best power with methanol(best power is 4.8afr, rich limit is 3.5afr) 6.4x.75=4.8.
As you can see by the exhaust temps the timing could with some more advance, it should be somewhere around 1000-1200 degrees F.
I've been to a couple of speedway meetings to see the NOS Sprints to get some ideas but they are very tight lipped & don't want to give away too many pointers,maybe they think I'll be on the track with the T bucket .The sprints actually sound pretty tough with there short twin system exhaust .
As to the problem with seals,pumps lasting ,as long as the alci is drained & flushed with petrol it will all last a hell of a long time as I've been using it in 202's with carbs for years.
I have down loaded Tuner Pro, but I'm still not sure what to do next. I haven't got a chip burner or aldl cable as I'm not sure which way to go
Harry
I'm using a wide band O2 meter.(Innovate lm-1)
I've quoted the O2 readings as Lambda which when converted to AFR . 6.4x.8=5.12 afr which is a little lean for best power with methanol(best power is 4.8afr, rich limit is 3.5afr) 6.4x.75=4.8.
As you can see by the exhaust temps the timing could with some more advance, it should be somewhere around 1000-1200 degrees F.
I've been to a couple of speedway meetings to see the NOS Sprints to get some ideas but they are very tight lipped & don't want to give away too many pointers,maybe they think I'll be on the track with the T bucket .The sprints actually sound pretty tough with there short twin system exhaust .
As to the problem with seals,pumps lasting ,as long as the alci is drained & flushed with petrol it will all last a hell of a long time as I've been using it in 202's with carbs for years.
I have down loaded Tuner Pro, but I'm still not sure what to do next. I haven't got a chip burner or aldl cable as I'm not sure which way to go
Harry
"Definition of a Drag Racer: A person who spends money he doesn't have on parts he doesn't need to impress people he doesn't know." - Grumpy Jenkins----- Poverty---
- Holden202T
- Posts: 10311
- Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2009 9:05 pm
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Re: ECU Help
well if you haven't got a chip burner or an aldl cable i'd suggest your best option would be a realtime board and serial (or usb) interface .....
this will give you the ability to tune without having to remove chips to burn them all the time ..... and if you don't have a burner then your probably looking at atleast $50 or so to get the bits you need to do it with a burner and eprom.....
sounds like your on the right track with the tuning anyways .... be careful aswell cause if you pump the timing up it will get leaner!
one thing i like about the drag racing culture is they (from what i've seen) are always more than happy to talk to you about their cars and help people out with info whereas the speedway guys are usually more like you suggested .... some people take their racing too seriously
EDIT: you can find the realtime gear in the for sale section !
this will give you the ability to tune without having to remove chips to burn them all the time ..... and if you don't have a burner then your probably looking at atleast $50 or so to get the bits you need to do it with a burner and eprom.....
sounds like your on the right track with the tuning anyways .... be careful aswell cause if you pump the timing up it will get leaner!
one thing i like about the drag racing culture is they (from what i've seen) are always more than happy to talk to you about their cars and help people out with info whereas the speedway guys are usually more like you suggested .... some people take their racing too seriously
EDIT: you can find the realtime gear in the for sale section !
No matter what the question is, the answer is always more horsepower!
Just starting out? Have a read of the getting started guide
Basic tuning of a delco ECM with $12P thread
Advanced tuning of a delco ECM with $12P thread
Just starting out? Have a read of the getting started guide
Basic tuning of a delco ECM with $12P thread
Advanced tuning of a delco ECM with $12P thread
Re: ECU Help
The drag racing people are pretty helpful most of the time,if you break something you can usually borrow one from someone then race against them,I helped my brother at the speedway several years ago & unless you had parts yourself you were on the trailer. The preferred method is real time tuning as Holden202 has mentioned but I'm helping a friend(with very limited funds) with his series1 v6 fitted with a SC14 blower as well,after reading this forum & a couple of others I think we need to fit a 2 Bar map sensor as the engine pulls well at the first part of the track then falls on it's nose at the top end, it's getting plenty of fuel as it has 2 extra injectors plumbed in before the blower to help cool , I think that the spark is being retarded as it's running 15lbs of boost. This engine is fitted with the same memcal as mine & using methanol. Is there a tutorial any where to use Tunerpro or can I download stuff to use so I can have a play with the program?
Harry
Harry
"Definition of a Drag Racer: A person who spends money he doesn't have on parts he doesn't need to impress people he doesn't know." - Grumpy Jenkins----- Poverty---