Custom ATS Placement

[hoopstar]

Hey Chaps

I am replacing the banana manifold on a VR 304 auto with a Torque Power low rise, dual plane unit (TP005) and Accel 4 barrel Throttle body. The engine is stock apart from extractors and 2 1/2" system. Future plan is to rebuild the bottom end with some compression and a mild (214 or 220 @ .050") cam.

The question is where do I place the Air Temperature Sensor ?

tp manifold.jpg (155.56 KiB) Viewed 4549 times

For ever person I ask I seem to get a different answer and I am more confused than ever. The suggestions so far:

1. In the factory location of runner #6 just before the head - My machinist (ARC) thinks this is a BAD idea as the sensor sticks a long way into the runner and will hurt flow. Some say it suffers from heat soak.

2. In the base of the air cleaner - Many say this causes problem as it's not a true reading of whats going into the engine and there is large variation from idle to WOT.

3. In the plenum - My machinist thinks the left bank as it has the longest runners and therefore (theoretically) the highest air speed and less variation. I 'guess' placement would be critical and would need to ensure it is in the air stream from the primaries throttle blade?

4. One of the cast in bosses on the mid-point of the runners. There are two locations of these bosses - one of the front (arrowed) and one on the rear, both on the high side runners. Seems to be the most logical location as it has air speed but further away from the head, reducing heat soak?!

Any help would be greatly appreciated...!!

[MAGP]

VN-VS series 1 had it in the runner and it was fine. VS series 3 and VT have it in the intake piping before the TB like a V6 and it was fine. I would say either of these is fine but my preference is close to the head as it gives the most accurate readings for the location the fuel is injected at.

[Wade]

I would think the best place would be just before the throttle body like they do with ls chev's

[immortality]

VN-VS series 1 had it in the runner and it was fine. VS series 3 and VT have it in the intake piping before the TB like a V6 and it was fine. I would say either of these is fine but my preference is close to the head as it gives the most accurate readings for the location the fuel is injected at.

VN-VS is a MAT sensor VT is an AIT sensor. 2 different sensors been used with 2 different methods of tuning (MAP Vs MAF respectively) so they can't be compared.

IMHO ideally the MAT sensor needs to be as close as possible to the factory position.

[antus]

There are tune items, such as "Charge Temp - % Coolant contribution for calculating charge temp Vs RPM & MAP" in 12P which can adjust the balance of influence the water temp has on Manifold air temp. Usually this wouldn't be needed though.

To make life easy as possible as close to the factory position as possible should give the best results. If the values are way out you can then resort to the Charge Temp % table. Of course prevent air flow restrictions as possible. I would probably go #4. I dont think the air temp is going to change significantly between the points your considering.

[Charlescrown]

The most convenient place. From my experience the sensor makes little difference to the final outcome and tuning can compensate for minor variations.

[Dylan]

I've done a before and after with a torque power in the top plenum and in the factory location.
Factory location was LOTS more stable.

Late model cars that have it in the intake pipe run a MAF set up. Needs to be measured there.

[VK_3800]

Depends on how thick the runner walls are. This is a Stripmaster which has quite a chunky casting, the thread doesn't protrude into the runner at all - just the little plastic cage and the sensor bulb which don't really add up to enough area to impede flow.

[vlad01]

In the v6 VH we mounted the sensor in the plenum spacer and we had the best and most stable fuel vs air temp response we ever saw.

All I did was fix the factory heat soak "fix" in the inverse temp term table and it was rock solid and followed the target afr from stone cold to heat soaked restarted after a dyno run. The insulating material solved the sensor heat soak issue. Because it was in the plenum it still responded to air heating up but far far less direct sensor heating from the heads and lower intake.

[MAGP]

VN-VS series 1 had it in the runner and it was fine. VS series 3 and VT have it in the intake piping before the TB like a V6 and it was fine. I would say either of these is fine but my preference is close to the head as it gives the most accurate readings for the location the fuel is injected at.

VN-VS is a MAT sensor VT is an AIT sensor. 2 different sensors been used with 2 different methods of tuning (MAP Vs MAF respectively) so they can't be compared.

IMHO ideally the MAT sensor needs to be as close as possible to the factory position.

They are both sensors that measure Air Temperature. Regardless of where they are put or what they are called they both measure Air Temperature. Because of this they can be compared because engines consume 2 things air and fuel. IATs are usually placed closer to the MAF because they are measuring the air temp at or near the MAF. That does not hinder them being placed closer to the injector if the tuner understands the air temperature will be different and tunes accordingly.