Injector scaling

Holden/Delco Tuning. ALDL, OBD 1.5. Circa 1989 to 2004.
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Shifty
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Injector scaling

Post by Shifty »

VSII V6 Auto, using Tunerpro RT with the OSE Plugin.

Done plenty of stuff before but Delco tuning is completely new to me, the software is pretty daunting. One thing I find hard is that a lot of the info here overlaps between different ecu types, software packages, flash tunes, real time tuning, etc and half the time there is assumed knowledge that is probably somewhere else but by the time you learn that you already gave up on the thing you needed to know it for.

So two questions:

1. Anyway first job is fitting 80lb injectors; I understand that VS injectors are about 20lb. I did the kinjflow calculator thing; wanting to know there where and how of applying this figure.

2. Is there a breakdown somewhere of all the different Parameters, what they do, etc? I'm looking at what feels like about a thousand different flags, scalars, and tables.
Wade
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Re: Injector scaling

Post by Wade »

Contact the1 on here. Send your injectors off to him and have him generate all the new data
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antus
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Re: Injector scaling

Post by antus »

the kinjflow calculaor is for the map based computers, not the maf based ones (the two main groups of software types). There is still a flow rate scalar, and I believe the simplest way is to calculate the percentage difference between old and new and apply the same percentage of change to the number thats in there. Beyond that there are also dead time settings by voltage. If you have that information you should update it for the new injectors.
Have you read the FAQ? For lots of information and links to significant threads see here: http://pcmhacking.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1396
immortality
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Re: Injector scaling

Post by immortality »

For the maf based tunes the injector flow is shown in grams I believe so you just need to convert 80 lbs to grams/min and I believe the kinjflow spreadsheet already has a calculator for that on it. If those are 80 lbs seimens deka injectors there should already be optimised data available on the forum as a few guys have used em.
Ken
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Re: Injector scaling

Post by Ken »

Shifty wrote:VSII V6 Auto, using Tunerpro RT with the OSE Plugin.

Done plenty of stuff before but Delco tuning is completely new to me, the software is pretty daunting. One thing I find hard is that a lot of the info here overlaps between different ecu types, software packages, flash tunes, real time tuning, etc and half the time there is assumed knowledge that is probably somewhere else but by the time you learn that you already gave up on the thing you needed to know it for.
I know where you're coming from, I'm in the same boat at times when I read some replies here, it's not til I've dabbled with a particular section for longer than makes sense, where I learn a step or 2 the hard way myself, do I begin to understand the abbreviated / short responses of some of the postings here..

Not sure if you're in any way familiar with tunerpro, so I'll post a couple of pics just in case, if you already know, no big deal I guess..

1:-
Open tunerpro and browse to where you have your bin file ready to edit.
TP_Bin.PNG
TP_Bin.PNG (14.8 KiB) Viewed 4009 times
2:-
You'll notice in this screen the bin file is now listed in the top bar of tunerpro,
now browse to where you have your xdf on your system.
TP_XDF.PNG
TP_XDF.PNG (21.04 KiB) Viewed 4009 times
3:-
In this screen both the bin file and XDF are now listed in the very top bar of tunerpro.
Common keyboard shortcuts work within tunerpro, in this case pressing and holding the Ctrl key then the "F" key
will launch a find items dialog, press the 2 keys to open the find dialog and search for injector.
If you double click on anything that shows up in the find items dialog, it'll open that item to edit..
TP_InjFlow.PNG
TP_InjFlow.PNG (52.78 KiB) Viewed 4009 times

The one in particular I opened in that last screen is what corrected a VS V6 my son just installed VT injectors in, was as rich as before lowering it to roughly what the flow calc gave me as a figure..
In fact that last screen states the STD figure as 361.328, when the kinjflow calc says the STD injectors should be 392.719, I just worked the difference out from the STD 20.21lb injectors to the 21.44lb injectors using the flow calc, though ended up a few points higher, the 25 odd points difference it gave me ended up too lean, I ended up 21 point something the difference, which gave me high 14's to low 15's cruize, high 12's wot.
Though as Wade states, you're probably better off getting them flow tested by The1 and get a figure off him for what they really flow, I'm guessing my $20 each injectors are no doubt chinese, and don't flow anything like the part number says, or even close to flowing the same as each other..

I'm guessing there's also other areas I could / should be altering to suit the different injectors, I'm still wet behind the ears myself regarding this area of tuning, we'll see what others have to add..
KinjFlow.PNG
KinjFlow.PNG (70.71 KiB) Viewed 4009 times
Last edited by Ken on Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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delcowizzid
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Re: Injector scaling

Post by delcowizzid »

Change the ms/gram figurfigure to what the kingflow says and add the 80lb voltage compensation data and low pulse width offsets for 80lb seimens that can be found on here provided by the1 and it should be pretty close them tune the injector multiplier table to suit
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antus
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Re: Injector scaling

Post by antus »

Anyone got a link to the 80lb data? Ive found 60lb here, would be good to add it here, and i'll add this thread to the FAQ.

Siemens Deka 60lb: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=5548#p82649
Have you read the FAQ? For lots of information and links to significant threads see here: http://pcmhacking.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1396
Wade
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Re: Injector scaling

Post by Wade »

antus wrote:Anyone got a link to the 80lb data? Ive found 60lb here, would be good to add it here, and i'll add this thread to the FAQ.

Siemens Deka 60lb: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=5548#p82649
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The1
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Re: Injector scaling

Post by The1 »

i had a 60LB set in but didn't get time to do 3.5bar testing.

Code: Select all

DEKA 60LB
INJ PW Vs Battery Voltage Deadtime		
		
Voltage	3.0BAR	3.5BAR
0.00	3.89	
1.60	3.89	
3.20	3.89	
4.80	3.89	
6.40	3.00	
8.00	1.91	
9.60	1.21	
11.20	0.85	
12.80	0.70	
14.40	0.60	
16.00	0.47	
17.60	0.43	
19.20	0.38	
20.80	0.35	
22.40	0.34	
24.00	0.31	
25.50	0.29	

Low Pulse Width Adder Table	
	
0.000	0.30
0.244	0.30
0.488	0.30
0.732	0.30
0.976	0.15
1.220	0.00
1.460	0.00
1.708	0.00
1.950	0.00
2.197	0.00
2.440	0.00
2.685	0.00
2.929	0.00
3.170	0.00
3.410	0.00
3.660	0.00

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