1227165 ECU Questions

American Delco GM ECUs and PCMs, ALDL, OBD 1.5.
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1227165 ECU Questions

Postby K1ng0011 » Sat Nov 25, 2017 9:15 pm

Hello I live in the states. I have a 1972 base model camaro with a autoparts store stock truck chevy 350 engine. The engine has no real mods other than long tube headers. I am going to be converting it to EFI. Specifically I am going to be using the TPI intake setup from an 80s camaro. Based on what I have read I can use the OSE 12P V112 code on my 1227165 ECU. This was originally a MAF ECU. Using the OSE 12P code I can use a MAP sensor and wideband. I followed the wiring diagram on the OSE 12P link. I will not be using the NVRAM I will be burning chips. I currently have no knock sensor wired in. My o2 sensor is narrowband and wideband capable. I will not be running boost or a second MAP sensor. I am going to have questions as I try and make this work since I am new to this. I will probably have more questions but this is what I have for now.


OSE 12P V112 - viewtopic.php?f=27&t=356
Spartan 2 O2 Sensor (Narrow/Wideband) - https://www.14point7.com/products/spart ... ntroller-2
EEPROM Programmer - http://www.moates.net/burn2-chip-programmer-p-197.html
EEPROM Chips - 27SF512 chips
1227165 EPROM Adapter - http://www.moates.net/gp1-package-gm-ad ... l?cPath=64
Third Gen Camaro 1227165 Stock Pinouts - http://chevythunder.com/fuel%20injectio ... tm#1986-89 pinouts (ecm #1227165)


1. The computer needs to see the speed of the car. Currently I want to feed the computer's speed input from my gauge cluster. I have a dakota digital gauge cluster that can output 2k ppm or 4k ppm. Is this something I can set in the bin file in tuner pro? Or do I have to have a certain ppm output for this to work?

http://www.dakotadigital.com/pdf/VHX_manual_main.pdf


2. I am wondering which bin I need to start with in Tuner Pro. There are two for OSE $12P.

OSE $12P V112 BLCF V8.bin
OSE $12P V112 BLCF V8 __stacked.bin

3. For OSE $12P in the wiring diagram it shows pin D6 as the ground wire for the o2 sensor. Inline somewhere do I need a ring terminal to ground it. Or will the ECU provide the ground via the D6 pin?

4. I have one single electric fan that has two speeds. I was wondering if it is possible using the C1 pin from the ECU with a flex output or two flex outputs to control a relay to use both speeds.

5. I know that the information in the bin is metric. Is there a XDF that is sae for mph and fahrenheit? I can work with kph but it would make it easier if it had numbers I am use to working with.

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Re: 1227165 ECU Questions

Postby antus » Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:03 am

1. Use 2k and set the ppk in the tune 4k may work but there is an upper limit.
2. Stacked has 2 copies and is for the nvram. The first one suits the 27c512.
3. Its designed for single wire o2 grounded through the sensor. If you have signal and gnd wires hook ground to your own ground point.
4. I think 12p has 2 fan outputs. Use these to ground your relays for on.
5. I dont think anyone has made an imperial xdf but you can wrap the equasions and edit the titles in the xdf and adx to convert the output yourself. If you do this please post it back to help others.

It sounds like a good project. Good luck!
Have you read the FAQ? For lots of information and links to significant threads see here: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1396

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Re: 1227165 ECU Questions

Postby K1ng0011 » Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:12 pm

Thanks for the information antus. I found some information regarding the D6 pin. According to the post below the D6 ground is for a non noisy earth. For the O2 sensor you want to have a earth connection that is not noisy or has a lot of amps flowing through it. From what I can see you want to put a ring terminal inline on the D6 pin. I guess the ECU needs to see a ground on that pin too. As for editing the XDF to reflect imperial temps, speeds, etc I opened the XDF in notpad ++. I made the following changes below to the temperature in the XDF. I dont know if any additional values need to be changed anywhere. However regarding the speed I think I found the part of the XDF where the speed value is set. I dont know what the equation should be set too. right now it is 7372800/X. Anyone have any insight on that? I checked the $6E xdf for a 1989 camaro but I could not find anything related to the speed there. I have attached the xdf with the current changes.

D6 Pin Info - viewtopic.php?f=7&t=4087&start=10

OSE12P Pinouts - download/file.php?id=5105

Celsius

<MATH equation="0.750000 * X + -40.000000">
<units>DegC</units>
<units>Deg C</units>

Fahrenheit

<MATH equation="1.350000 * X + -40.000000">
<units>DegF</units>
<units>Deg F</units>

Speed

<XDFCONSTANT uniqueid="0x802D">
<title>Road speed params - Speed sensor constant Pulses/Kilometer</title>
<description>Pulse/k = (1000/Circ in m) * Diff Gear * PPR</description>
<EMBEDDEDDATA mmedaddress="0x802D" mmedelementsizebits="16" mmedmajorstridebits="0" mmedminorstridebits="0" />
<units>PPK</units>
<datatype>0</datatype>
<unittype>0</unittype>
<DALINK index="0" />
<MATH equation="7372800/X">
<VAR id="X" />
</MATH>
</XDFCONSTANT>
<XDFCONSTANT uniqueid="0x802F">
<title>Road speed params - Lag filter coefficient for KPH</title>
<EMBEDDEDDATA mmedaddress="0x802F" mmedelementsizebits="8" mmedmajorstridebits="0" mmedminorstridebits="0" />
<units>%</units>
<datatype>0</datatype>
<unittype>0</unittype>
<DALINK index="0" />
<MATH equation="(X/256)*100">
<VAR id="X" />
</MATH>
</XDFCONSTANT>
Attachments
OSE12P V112 - 1,2 and 3 bar Imerpial Rev 1.xdf
(406.8 KiB) Downloaded 47 times

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Re: 1227165 ECU Questions

Postby antus » Mon Nov 27, 2017 4:08 pm

The XDF changes look right if the mathematical changes are good, but you should edit the XDF in tunerpro itself. There is a warning up the top of the file "dont edit this by hand - trust me" or similar, and of course I did back in the early days and I found the app expects the text to be certain lengths and you can cause buffer overflows in tunerpro. Later versions encrypt the file which totally rules out hand editing too. In your case the string lengths dont seem changed, so your probably OK, but something to be aware of. If you cause an overflow by 1 byte or so you can destabilise tunerpro with a small memory corruption and get really wierd results in what looks like some completely unrelated part of the program when you least expect it. The same goes for the ADX when you start logging.

Agree the thread you linked has the details you were looking for. I was assuming you had a 2 wire O2, but if you have a 4 wire with a heater, then make sure the heater circuit is wired up like in the thread. D6 on the ECM is probably a good idea as your less likely to get skewed readings from a bad ground later on.

Ive linked to this thread at the end of the FAQ too for anyone who has the same query about Imperial measurements.
Have you read the FAQ? For lots of information and links to significant threads see here: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1396

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Re: 1227165 ECU Questions

Postby K1ng0011 » Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:28 pm

I got the equation from a post over at thirdgen.org. Third gen camaros come with the 165 ECU in united states so I just looked there. When I was editing in notpad ++ I just did a find and replace all for the temperature fields and unit fields. If anyone has weird issues I can go through tuner pro. However I dont see any way to update everything I need so it would probably take a lot longer. As for the speed I did not make any changes I just found the part in the XDF I think where speed is calculated. I think this is the equation used to calculate the speed 7372800/X. MPH and KPH are different numbers at the same speed. So I would assume the equation is different? My understanding is that the computer uses the PPK from the speed sensor to calculate the speed. So I would think that the scalar: "Road speed params - Speed sensor constant Pulses/Kilometer" would be involved in the calculation between MPH or KPH. Antus do you have any insight on this?

Celsius to Fahrenheit Math Equation- https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-pro ... erpro.html

Example Scaler from $6E

%%CONSTANT%%
000002 UniqueID =0x3C15
020005 Title ="Fuel Cutoff Speed "
020011 DescSize =0x0
020010 Desc =""
020020 Units ="MPH "
020100 Address =0x3AF
020200 Equation =1.000000 * X + 0.000000,TH|0|0|0|0|

Example Scaler from OSE$12P

<XDFCONSTANT uniqueid="0x9965">
<title>TCC Params - TCC Road speed coast level (+5Kph Hysteresis)</title>
<EMBEDDEDDATA mmedaddress="0x9965" mmedelementsizebits="8" mmedmajorstridebits="0" mmedminorstridebits="0" />
<units>KPH</units>
<datatype>0</datatype>
<unittype>0</unittype>
<DALINK index="0" />
<MATH equation="X">
<VAR id="X" />
</MATH>
</XDFCONSTANT>

What I think determines the speed in the XDF for OSE$12P either MPH or KPH

<XDFCONSTANT uniqueid="0x802D">
<title>Road speed params - Speed sensor constant Pulses/Kilometer</title>
<description>Pulse/k = (1000/Circ in m) * Diff Gear * PPR</description>
<EMBEDDEDDATA mmedaddress="0x802D" mmedelementsizebits="16" mmedmajorstridebits="0" mmedminorstridebits="0" />
<units>PPK</units>
<datatype>0</datatype>
<unittype>0</unittype>
<DALINK index="0" />
<MATH equation="7372800/X">
<VAR id="X" />
</MATH>
</XDFCONSTANT

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Re: 1227165 ECU Questions

Postby antus » Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:04 am

Yes thats right. 1KM = 0.6213712 Miles, so when you enter your PPM you need to multiply it by 0.6213712 to convert it to PPK, and feed that in to the original equation.

So you change 7372800/X to 7372800/(X*0.6213712)

I tested by setting PPK to 600, then changing the equation as above and the units text to PPM. I then re-edit the setting and I see the value displayed is now 965.61. The raw hex value in the actual bin does not change.

To test I check with google "1 mile in km" and see its 1.609344016, so I multiply 600 by 1.609344016 and get 965.6064096, which when rounded to a precision of 2 is a match. Win!

This can be simplified further. If I cheat with https://www.symbolab.com/solver/algebra ... 5Cright%29

It tells me I can divide 7372800 by 0.6213712 and get 11865371 so an extra simplification is to use 11865371/X

I can set the equation to this and the PPM in my test remain 965.61 so this is also proven.
Have you read the FAQ? For lots of information and links to significant threads see here: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1396

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Re: 1227165 ECU Questions

Postby K1ng0011 » Tue Nov 28, 2017 5:28 pm

I am impressed you managed to figure that out. Looking at your math what you posted makes sense. I dont think I have enough experience to have figured that out. In the XDF I changed all instances of KPH to MPH. I also changed the scalar : "Road speed params - Speed sensor constant Pulses/Kilometer". It might be worth noting I edited the speed scalar in tuner pro. 11865371/X and 7372800/X have different string lengths. That is why I opted to make that particular edit in tuner pro at your recommendation antus. Below are the only changes I have made to the XDF. If I missed something or there is a corruption issues by me hand editing the XDF let me know. Once I get everything and I am ready for tuning if I find an issue I will post it. Rev 2 of the Imperial OSE$12P XDF is attached.


Celsius

<MATH equation="0.750000 * X + -40.000000">
<units>DegC</units>
<units>Deg C</units>

Fahrenheit

<MATH equation="1.350000 * X + -40.000000">
<units>DegF</units>
<units>Deg F</units>


Speed KPH

<XDFCONSTANT uniqueid="0x802D">
<title>Road speed params - Speed sensor constant Pulses/Kilometer</title>
<description>Pulse/k = (1000/Circ in m) * Diff Gear * PPR</description>
<EMBEDDEDDATA mmedaddress="0x802D" mmedelementsizebits="16" mmedmajorstridebits="0" mmedminorstridebits="0" />
<units>PPK</units>
<datatype>0</datatype>
<unittype>0</unittype>
<DALINK index="0" />
<MATH equation="7372800/X">
<VAR id="X" />
</MATH>
</XDFCONSTANT>

Speed MPH


<XDFCONSTANT uniqueid="0x802D">
<title>Road speed params - Speed sensor constant Pulses/Mile</title>
<description>Pulse/k = (1000/Circ in m) * Diff Gear * PPR</description>
<EMBEDDEDDATA mmedaddress="0x802D" mmedelementsizebits="16" mmedmajorstridebits="0" mmedminorstridebits="0" />
<units>PPK</units>
<datatype>0</datatype>
<unittype>0</unittype>
<DALINK index="0" />
<MATH equation="11865371/X">
<VAR id="X" />
</MATH>
</XDFCONSTANT>
Attachments
OSE12P V112 - 1,2 and 3 bar Imperial Rev 2.xdf
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Re: 1227165 ECU Questions

Postby antus » Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:10 am

Looks good. I'd recommend changing units PPK (pulses per km) to PPM (mile) as well as the units are now different. Good move changing that one in the UI. That should prevent any problems.
Have you read the FAQ? For lots of information and links to significant threads see here: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1396

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Re: 1227165 ECU Questions

Postby K1ng0011 » Sat Dec 23, 2017 10:04 pm

I have have not dropped off the face of the earth yet. Been busy with holidays and getting the wiring harness for my ECU done. I got a GM TPI intake from a 85-91 camaro and a butchered wiring harness and ecu for free with it. I had to cut, fix, or rewire 80% of it. I have attached a picture in its completed form at the moment. Hopefully most of the parts I need will be here by January and I can start installing stuff and tuning this thing. Pretty excited although I know I am going to struggle getting this tuned properly. Antus regarding your question about PPK (pulses per km) to PPM (mile) I changed that in tunerpro on my Rev 2 of the XDF. I have been working on creating categories for the XDF. When you have the XDF open in tuner pro and you look at the category view I have been building categories there for the different scalers flags and tables. The OSE$12P XDF does not really have any it only has two. Hoping when I get it done it might make it easier to find things in tuner pro. There are a lot of scalers, flags, and tables. A lot more than a normal bin would have. I am about 85% done with it when I complete it I will release it for review by others.
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Re: 1227165 ECU Questions

Postby antus » Tue Dec 26, 2017 4:10 pm

Most the delco bins of that era do have (close to) that many settings, but the definitions are incomplete. VL400 has added additional features and the map a/b stuff though which doubled up a lot of settings.
Have you read the FAQ? For lots of information and links to significant threads see here: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1396

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