VS L67 Idle spark issue

Tuning The Delco In Realtime
hoosedamoose
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Re: VS L67 Idle spark issue

Post by hoosedamoose »

Knock sensors are disabled. Using the knock muffs from plex tuning. The the knock sensors pickup garbage with E85 anyway as I've found that E85 actually knocks at a different frequency. In this case though, nothing could save me
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vlad01
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Re: VS L67 Idle spark issue

Post by vlad01 »

wait I know you lol.
I'm the director of VSH (Vlad's Spec Holden), because HSV were doing it ass about.
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krusty
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Re: VS L67 Idle spark issue

Post by krusty »

hoosedamoose wrote:Knock sensors are disabled. Using the knock muffs from plex tuning. The the knock sensors pickup garbage with E85 anyway as I've found that E85 actually knocks at a different frequency. In this case though, nothing could save me
Disabled knock sensors on a delco? Disabling not needed and quite dangerous. A simple minor cover for valvetrain noise at low load and rpm on certain cams is all that's needed sometimes at worst case
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vlad01
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Re: VS L67 Idle spark issue

Post by vlad01 »

I don't know what the band pass filters are like or how the later PCMs handle knock (DSP? or lack of?) but on early ECU/PCMs the factory system is complete garbage and no amount of adjustment will help as they don't have any smarts and can't tell between mechanical noise and actual knock. So bad in fact without fail it triggers constantly when there is no knock and only drivetrain vibrations or other normal mechanical noises and does not trigger on real loud audible knock. And absolutely the best option is to use true knock ears and tune accordingly with a safety buffer.


If you are wondering why the piston broke a land....well. 20psi , non cooled on stock bottom end. The rings have never been gaped so obviously they over expanded, closed up and broke the land off.
I'm the director of VSH (Vlad's Spec Holden), because HSV were doing it ass about.
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delcowizzid
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Re: VS L67 Idle spark issue

Post by delcowizzid »

Ah the old missing crown .only v6 I ever killed was ecotec with boost .shorty boost controller spiked and tiny spark rattle was all it took to chip the top .we run a pretty noisy cam and yt rockers on the vb doesn't mess with the knock sensing at all it's all still fully active up to 3800rpm
If Its Got Gas Or Ass Count Me In.if it cant be fixed with a hammer you have an electrical problem
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vlad01
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Re: VS L67 Idle spark issue

Post by vlad01 »

I had to turn it off completely on all my cars. Extractors were affecting major false knock(from scavenging pulses) as well as general mechanical noises. Even if using the ignore knock table it didn't fix the issue where it would mistake mechanical noise for knock and ignored actual knock.

I agree with ecotec pistons being very fragile compared to buick ones. I saw one guy go through 4 or 5 ecotec engines in matter of hours or mins after fitting them. Turns out he fitted a new walbro pump. and you know that 99.9% of all walbros are poor quality china copies that look the part. That was the cause as it was starving th engine of fuel and the pistons just rattled to bits.

On the buicks though, shit they can take abuse like no tomorrow and ping the crap out of them and you can't find any trace of it ever having detonated. My old engine from the red VP despite running pig rich 98 seemed to detonate badly on days with high air temps, like small crackers going off in a metal pan inside the interior of the car loud. It was still running stock exhaust manifolds so that may be the cause as I couldn't find why it did being rich and only 26 deg of max timing. But anyway I bore scoped the engine and its perfect so clearly these are tough.
I'm the director of VSH (Vlad's Spec Holden), because HSV were doing it ass about.
immortality
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Re: VS L67 Idle spark issue

Post by immortality »

delcowizzid wrote:Ah the old missing crown .only v6 I ever killed was ecotec with boost .shorty boost controller spiked and tiny spark rattle was all it took to chip the top .we run a pretty noisy cam and yt rockers on the vb doesn't mess with the knock sensing at all it's all still fully active up to 3800rpm
I remember that engine. I wonder what ever happened to that car and the turbo V8 he had as well?
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krusty
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Re: VS L67 Idle spark issue

Post by krusty »

delcowizzid wrote:Ah the old missing crown .only v6 I ever killed was ecotec with boost .shorty boost controller spiked and tiny spark rattle was all it took to chip the top .we run a pretty noisy cam and yt rockers on the vb doesn't mess with the knock sensing at all it's all still fully active up to 3800rpm
Most cams I've tuned also don't mess with the knock sensors at all. Heavy springs, over sized valves, thin walled headers etc etc. Xp cam does every time however regardless of actual afr or timing and does so under little to no load hence my advice on this specific instance.
hoosedamoose
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Re: VS L67 Idle spark issue

Post by hoosedamoose »

vlad01 wrote:I had to turn it off completely on all my cars. Extractors were affecting major false knock(from scavenging pulses) as well as general mechanical noises. Even if using the ignore knock table it didn't fix the issue where it would mistake mechanical noise for knock and ignored actual knock.

I agree with ecotec pistons being very fragile compared to buick ones. I saw one guy go through 4 or 5 ecotec engines in matter of hours or mins after fitting them. Turns out he fitted a new walbro pump. and you know that 99.9% of all walbros are poor quality china copies that look the part. That was the cause as it was starving th engine of fuel and the pistons just rattled to bits.

On the buicks though, shit they can take abuse like no tomorrow and ping the crap out of them and you can't find any trace of it ever having detonated. My old engine from the red VP despite running pig rich 98 seemed to detonate badly on days with high air temps, like small crackers going off in a metal pan inside the interior of the car loud. It was still running stock exhaust manifolds so that may be the cause as I couldn't find why it did being rich and only 26 deg of max timing. But anyway I bore scoped the engine and its perfect so clearly these are tough.
I'll be honest though, this motor has been to hell and back a few times lol. It was a daily for more than a year which got thrashed on a daily basis and My Guinea pig for tuning. The amount of times it pinged when it had a stock cam can't be counted on both hands. But that was mostly due to some wiring issues with the maf and injectors which didn't get solved until later down the track. It outlasted 2 autos and a tailshaft :lol:
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