VT V8 304 MAF NVRAM -> VS V8 MAP NVRAM + M122 SC Conversion

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MAGP
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Re: VT V8 304 MAF NVRAM -> VS V8 MAP NVRAM + M122 SC Convers

Post by MAGP »

JA2Z wrote:I know MAFs can be far superior at very low air flow (and at idle) conditions, ADR compliance being so tough is why R&D teams are forced to use them to meet emissions specs, (same as O2 sensors and Canisters, none of those are for power, they are all for emissions control) but I've always belived that MAP achieves more accurate results under heavy/WOT and boost conditions.
I have been pondering this comment since I first read it and I think you are comparing apples and oranges, or probably more correctly apples and baked beans. Canisters are nothing like a MAF.

The problem here is, and I am probably guilty of this too, the discussion in this thread is based upon "belief". I think instead of "discussing" the merits of MAP vs MAF based on our own beliefs we need verifiable results that are gathered by tests conducted in a proper scientific fashion. Anything else would be open for debate and debate always relies on individual belief so it becomes a revolving circular discussion that never gets resolved.

How do you propose to "test" your theory? Will you use a dyno with a gas analyser?
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JA2Z
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Re: VT V8 304 MAF NVRAM -> VS V8 MAP NVRAM + M122 SC Convers

Post by JA2Z »

I'll have the engine on a roller and wideband.

Rather than try to compare max power, (which would be virtually identical MAF or MAP as long as they're both tuned properly, capable range-wise [KHz/BAR], and the VE is not affected) I'm going to compare the ease of use in achieving the most accurate fueling and spark timings across the two main NVRAM platforms offered on this website. $11p & Enhanced Mod

Once tuned to the best of my ability, I'm going to observe and document how the two different systems are affected by different adverse real-world conditions, (moisture, excessive heat, etc..) and problems (leaks, voltage fluctuations, etc...) , and where both systems fall out of ideal fueling/spark conditions due to each of their inherent pitfalls.

Then I will observe and document how they handle a conversion to FI, and how much work is involved in setting up the two systems compared to each other.


This is only intended to be interesting, enjoyable, and informative for anybody following this thread.
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Re: VT V8 304 MAF NVRAM -> VS V8 MAP NVRAM + M122 SC Convers

Post by 0081 »

The results will be interesting but can be easily skewed still. If you have years of MAP experience adjusting to MAF can take time and MAP will just be easier.

I don't really have any MAP experience but I did read about one guy that had probably damaged his engine when a cooler pipe blew off and as it was a MAP the RPM went right up and bounced off the limiter.
Had the same thing happen on my MAF setup and it just idled rough
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JA2Z
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Re: VT V8 304 MAF NVRAM -> VS V8 MAP NVRAM + M122 SC Convers

Post by JA2Z »

I was de-looming the car today... there is a TON of wiring and parts I wont need.

I've removed the whole dash and guts. There is SO MUCH STUFF in the dash, no wonder they weigh so much with the climate control & electric everything

I have the trailer beside the car so I can throw is all out (so much AC/heater duct tubing)

I'll probably sell the whole interior if anyone wants it, it's the tan leather interior.


Will I need any part of the BCM wiring & BCM connected to run the engine if I turn VATS off on both NVRAMs?
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JA2Z
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Re: VT V8 304 MAF NVRAM -> VS V8 MAP NVRAM + M122 SC Convers

Post by JA2Z »

Interesting... they must have had an interesting TB setup for that to have happened. I tried mounting the TB before the IC on my VR, but the silicon 90* bends suck inwards and make the motor lean out a tiny bit then you closed the throttle, then bog a tiny bit when you open it again, because the silicon bends expand.

Didn't like it as much as the instant slam of 12psi boost rushing into the factory plenum volume. Although the constant BOV noise got many confused looks at the lights :wtf:
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Re: VT V8 304 MAF NVRAM -> VS V8 MAP NVRAM + M122 SC Convers

Post by MAGP »

Good plan. I look forward to seeing the progress but I agree with 0081 in that your experience with MAP compared to MAF will probably skew the result.
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Re: VT V8 304 MAF NVRAM -> VS V8 MAP NVRAM + M122 SC Convers

Post by antus »

I think to keep it verifyable you'll need to post the bin and a log to support any conclusions, that way if the tuning is out it can be taken for consideration, also delivered timing can be compared too.
Have you read the FAQ? For lots of information and links to significant threads see here: http://pcmhacking.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1396
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JA2Z
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Re: VT V8 304 MAF NVRAM -> VS V8 MAP NVRAM + M122 SC Convers

Post by JA2Z »

Yeah definitely..

I'll post all logs and files along with some videos of runs and I am more than happy to accept any tuning advise, as a lot of you know WAAAAAYYY more about using RT with those files than I do.

Hopefully the results will be interesting :) and at least the process will be fun regardless :)
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Re: VT V8 304 MAF NVRAM -> VS V8 MAP NVRAM + M122 SC Convers

Post by MAGP »

JA2Z wrote:Hopefully the results will be interesting :) and at least the process will be fun regardless :)
That's a great attitude to have. Do it for the experience of doing it and learn along the way.
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JA2Z
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Re: VT V8 304 MAF NVRAM -> VS V8 MAP NVRAM + M122 SC Convers

Post by JA2Z »

Crazy spaghetti
IMG_2202.JPG
So much wire, so little dash:
IMG_2209.JPG
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