E67 to T87/T87A TCM interface needed

[Tre-Cool]

what a dirty MOFO! to do that to you.

i was already thinking that with the in-depth explanation of what you were finding in the code etc you were someone with some decent first hand experience.

I already had a suspicion the available kits he was doing was suspect when he couldn't offer kits ready to go for all models. from my point of view it makes more sense to modify the tcm code to remove any of the requirements for the e38/e67 to work natively.

is there a pinout schematic for the t87 available?, curious if it has the neutral starter ,tapshift wire direct like the t43 controller does. Worse case it would make more sense to have a seperate can box with relays etc that can trigger reverse lights/tapshift control anyway.

1 of my current project cars im working on at the moment is a e38/t42 to e38/t43 swap. I've already mapped out the required differences between a factory ecu's to enable/disable IMS,NSBU etc.

have reached out to some1 that brings in engines/gearbox's to see if they can get a hold of a 10l80. seeing your posts gets me real dam interested!

[kidturbo]

That's actually the same guy I tested this with live last November. Same one I supplied the custom Teensy board with the running code, test drove his truck with the 10L80, then suddenly claimed he wasn't interested perusing this project any further.. Didn't even offer to kiss me...

Seriously?
So.. monitored what you were doing then just took off ?

He contacted me in late October about developing a piece of hardware to do these conversions because he was building some custom transmissions, and needed someone to make it work in his personal race truck first. But said he had someone willing to help market it if we could make it work. He'd also contacted a couple others I know about doing it.But since I build custom gateways for the marine industry, I was the one who had all the Global A protocol details to sort it out. So I pretty much did the proof of concept on the bench using a Teensy, then sent him a custom prototype board I'd developed for a different project. That had a single CANbus transceiver and a 5V 12bit ADC chip on it for other uses. Then I made the mistake of sharing compiled updates of each revision he wanted to test in his truck. Which did drive fine, but was still running some limp shift tables due to the U0100 being active.

When I found the issue with packet lengths, and offered up the options posted here, he was only interested in me fully gateway passing all the data between TCM and the rest of the bus. Which from what I've been told is likely what he found someone else to build. His box has 6 wires, 4 CAN, power and ground.. I'd explained the time involved, and extra coding costs involved since I use freelancers, and I'd already dropped $500 to developers for several hardware options. But when I told him I was exploring a custom bin options as an easy way to do it without spending a bunch of $$$ on coding a one off deal, he was against it. Said a bin could be copied to easily. To which I ask, "why would someone want to copy it?" The next morning I got that message above saying he was out, but would contact me if he picked it up again. I smelled a rat when I ask for my hardware back and got no reply...

[kidturbo]

what a dirty MOFO! to do that to you.

i was already thinking that with the in-depth explanation of what you were finding in the code etc you were someone with some decent first hand experience.

I already had a suspicion the available kits he was doing was suspect when he couldn't offer kits ready to go for all models. from my point of view it makes more sense to modify the tcm code to remove any of the requirements for the e38/e67 to work natively.

is there a pinout schematic for the t87 available?, curious if it has the neutral starter ,tapshift wire direct like the t43 controller does. Worse case it would make more sense to have a seperate can box with relays etc that can trigger reverse lights/tapshift control anyway.

1 of my current project cars im working on at the moment is a e38/t42 to e38/t43 swap. I've already mapped out the required differences between a factory ecu's to enable/disable IMS,NSBU etc.

have reached out to some1 that brings in engines/gearbox's to see if they can get a hold of a 10l80. seeing your posts gets me real dam interested!

Thanks for that kind support. On the business ethics side, my brother from another mother, and partner on a seven year long, high six figures, and widely documented Duramax offshore powerboat build, was none other than the founder of your largest storage building franchise over there. Tragically he passed away last year this month, and how I would so love to here his Australian comments on that deal.. He once made be look up who owned a large building in Florida because a business owner disrespected him. Said "wonder how he'd like to have a new landlord..." LOL

It's not about the money, as old hackers know, it only matters who did it first.. But I'd so enjoy having my mate explain how we'd handle that in an Aussie sort of way.

On the E38 to T43, I have hacked on the T42 before to use as I/O shaft speed monitors in our boat 2spd trans build. I know that one works fine with the E35B also, as I accidentally created a speed limiter on a the diesel boat when I forgot to disable it in the tune. So those year comms are good, and shouldn't see any issues with using a T43. The only thing I know for certain GM released with different CANbus was the Corvette 04-14. Those ECM's used a different OS and CANbus protocol that has all different ID's from other GM. Due to the BCM manufacture best I can find. However I've also been told that Holden used this same protocol version with different ID's, but I've never confirmed it. Some of my posts on this are on EFI forum.

PS. Yes I have the schematics. Post them up shortly.

[Tre-Cool]

theres a good story on the interwebs some where on an aussie forum where a guy got fucked over with a gearbox or parts or something from a workshop...the gist of it was.. a gearbox was thrown through said shop window.

was a few years back now, but the whole story was hilarious.

[roughneck427]

Since the cat is out of the bag i wasn't going to post this on the web but since kidturbo who was the main developer on this i can attest to what he says. I helped here and there with his on this project mapping the bins he was the brains behind it. I have messages going back to october of last year plus all the mapping info. The people who took kidturbo info unfriended me on FB (ohhh noo) when i called them out on it in PM. Sad deal i had some time in it but not as much as kidturbo. If kidturbo gives permission there will be a cal based swap and no gateway needed.

[kidturbo]

As teens, I once watched a buddy liquidnail a pair of very expensive, yet blown out 6x9 truck speakers to a huge storefront window. They wouldn't warranty em, so he decided to return em anyways, after hours.. Seems it took a few days to just figure out how to pry em off without busting the glass. But years later, you could still see those big oval outlines on that tinted glass when ya drove by. We laughed about that one for years..



Here is a couple T87A schematics. One is labeled 8spd. Not sure on the other, but they should get you headed in the right direction.

[Tre-Cool]

wiring doesn't look that complicated for input/outputs to vehicle. I'm ignoring the box side since well that'll never change.

I've got some experience with the pcs controller that zero gravity sells with a custom firmware to run the 6l80/8l's in swap kits.

While it works, the software is PIA to use since there's no real instructions on the tables/options that actually work to do stuff, so u kinda have to figure it out on your own. Which is why im all for getting as much code integration as possible before going down the standalone path (if compatible ecu works etc), unless there is software written & clear descriptions on what shit does.

When i get some time, I'd love to work out what code changes were done in the 6l80 tcm oses that changed between 08-09, then 10-14.

I can flash an 09 to a 08 os and it work in a car, but a 2010 is completely incompatible, I believe it's to do with the broadcast data changes in those years. To add to this I have a holden pim from our vz model that had the e38/t42 if i place a 2010 ecu on the bus, the data the pim reads is completely out of whack, an example would be with the engine off it thinks it's doing 6500rpm, but plug a pre 09 ecu in and it reads perfectly fine.

I know the TX/RX data can be changed in the ecu calibration, to define what messageblocks are sent on addresses. I just haven't dived that far into it.

EFilive-CAX

CAN-TX-E38.PNG (88.8 KiB) Viewed 162 times

[kidturbo]

I see Ross actually got around to implementing my CANbus options request, at least in the E38 OS before retirement. Good man..

What you have there is the full CANbus RX / TX ID list from the E38, which includes both of the GMLAN protocols possibilities early years. The "Corvette Only" version as I call it are the ID's in Dec, and standard GMLAN are ones in Hex. Or that's the easy way I remember it, have the full list in a spreadsheet also that another EU member and I hashed out years back. But that looks to be everything in the E38 from the original 1999 code.

However, as you mentioned, there is a couple possible GMLAN TCM related additions after 09 that might not be in the older E38 OS versions. And there is roughly 11 more messages that T87/A requires... My original request to Ross was an ability to reassign actual pins or PIDs to those ID's listed. But years later, realize that wasn't a simple bit switch like he has implemented in the 38. Would take some major work, likely a full recompile from scratch.. However, this same CAX file approach with an ON or OFF for each ID requirement is what roughneck427 is researching for us for on the new TCM. But likely as a custom OS release that is backwards years compatible so specific year. Just depends on how little data this TCM will actually operate with...

I haven't played with these new E38 CAN options yet, but will load one up here and have a look. Also have a couple T42's on the bench, which by my account, should work with all those ID's above. Was there a different OS for the T42 and T43 if it was in a Corvette?? And please provide some more details on you T43 and that pin swap.. Might have an idea of what you are encountering. But again, I don't see any physical reason we can't run ANY ECM against any TCM, of any year. Just gotta hash out the Happy Data..

[Tre-Cool]

can't find shit at the wreckers, at least online. so have sent a message to a GM SV distributor for a 10l90e kit.

Part number - 19420480

i expect it'll probably be around the 12k AUD mark.

[Tre-Cool]

I see Ross actually got around to implementing my CANbus options request, at least in the E38 OS before retirement. Good man..

What you have there is the full CANbus RX / TX ID list from the E38, which includes both of the GMLAN protocols possibilities early years. The "Corvette Only" version as I call it are the ID's in Dec, and standard GMLAN are ones in Hex. Or that's the easy way I remember it, have the full list in a spreadsheet also that another EU member and I hashed out years back. But that looks to be everything in the E38 from the original 1999 code.

However, as you mentioned, there is a couple possible GMLAN TCM related additions after 09 that might not be in the older E38 OS versions. And there is roughly 11 more messages that T87/A requires... My original request to Ross was an ability to reassign actual pins or PIDs to those ID's listed. But years later, realize that wasn't a simple bit switch like he has implemented in the 38. Would take some major work, likely a full recompile from scratch.. However, this same CAX file approach with an ON or OFF for each ID requirement is what roughneck427 is researching for us for on the new TCM. But likely as a custom OS release that is backwards years compatible so specific year. Just depends on how little data this TCM will actually operate with...

I haven't played with these new E38 CAN options yet, but will load one up here and have a look. Also have a couple T42's on the bench, which by my account, should work with all those ID's above. Was there a different OS for the T42 and T43 if it was in a Corvette?? And please provide some more details on you T43 and that pin swap.. Might have an idea of what you are encountering. But again, I don't see any physical reason we can't run ANY ECM against any TCM, of any year. Just gotta hash out the Happy Data..

Those are custom data i pulled into a cax file based of os 12609099, then kinda semi-massaged into 12639270. i have not verified or dared to make changes to that stuff yet. lol.

I have been reading through the GM specification docs like GMW8762 to get a good understanding of how they do stuff.