Opel Kadett with Delco EST

[opel_droplet]

Hi there,
my Kadett has a Delco EST system only, it is a carburator model, it was produced back in 1985 . Recently, I've managed to remove all of the silicon covering the electronical components, but i'm finding it difficult to identificate all of the chips included, probably because they are old and most likely because I'm not really into electronics eather. I've made some pictures of the EST, it has the part № 16037300 on the cover. The EST actually controls the ignition module (amplifier) while taking info from several sensors. First, an inductive camshaft sensor which plugs into the ignition module, and from there to the EST giving the revolutions (and/or degres before TDC) of the camshaft respectively the crankshaft. A MAP sensor with regulated 5 volts feed from the EST, oil temp sensor (NTC), and distance recorder sensor which actually sinks current only when the differential is turning, so I guess it tells the EST when the engine is under load. This are the sensors that comunicate with the EST trough the grey socket shown on the pics below. Can anyone tell me if this system is reprogrammable, and if so what equipment is needed to read the memory. As you can see there are lanes connected with the main chip creating some kind of socket layout. The main chip is 8507 JAPAN, and I found some info about similar generation chips, but as I said I'm not really into electronics. I can also draw the sensors wiring configuration with the EST if someone is interested. I would appreciate any help concearning this kind of systems. Thank you in advance

Pic1:http://dox.bg/files/dw?a=1cd5772533
Pic2:http://dox.bg/files/dw?a=595204e859

[VL400]

Welcome, I cant view your first picture (top side of the board) but if its anything like other Delco products you may find many chips used are custom made so part number searching normally does not help too much.

Its possible that it is reprogrammable but its more likely to be a OTP (one time programmable) memory.

[Jayme]

top pic

Pic1012 (800x600).jpg (419.94 KiB) Viewed 7847 times

[delcowizzid]

can you get numbers off the big chip looks like a honda ecu processor chip with built in eprom

[opel_droplet]

If there is a problem with the other pic let me know, I will try to fix it. The main chip has the following markings:
Delco
16048199
169 8507 JAPAN
A 004
The document that I found which probably concearns the chip is http://www.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-p ... 88507.html, but the mentioned chips there are 42 and 48 pins, mine is with 40 pins. Probably 2 communication pins less.
Also, there are no visible scraches onto the lanes of the "layout" socket, so the chip has to be soldered already programmed, and it may indicate that the socket is for reprogramming

[antus]

This pic looks a little similar to the C3 delco ecu, which predates the P4 variants we are most familiar with.

On our P4 ecu, you can see at the bottom there is a header, and in our ecus it is not touched either. It is used in development to connect factory tuning gear to create the vehicle calibration which is eventually used in production.

Here are some pics from a thread at thirdgen.org. The style of the connector is the same, but they have 2 connectors on the C3. They do appear to have a Hyundai chip on board, and the spark only ecu appears to be of a similar generation, probably with a 4k ROM in the CPU chip?

http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/diy-p ... -sram.html

I'll mirror a couple of pics here incase the link above dies.

montecarslow-c3mod-1.jpg (194.99 KiB) Viewed 7812 times

montecarslow-c3mod-2.jpg (213.66 KiB) Viewed 7812 times

If you were electronically inclined and up for a project you probably could dump the rom and figure out how to change it. But it would require some advanced skills. Research the C3 series of ECU and see if you can find how they dump the rom. Ive had a bit of a google, but they are old and there doesnt appear to be much left on the net about them.

[opel_droplet]

Ok, thanks for the replies. It seems that It is going to be a tricky one dumping the ROM. Can someone explain in a more simple way the interaction between the sensors and the ECU, I mean how the signals affect the timing. I know that the main chip has "the brain" of the ECU inside it, and it reads and interprets the signals based on the program writen, so i guess that there are also some kind of predetermined data maps which should be relevant to the info comming from the sensors used. Or it works in some other way, depending on the readings just adding or subtracting degrees to/from the basic timing angle.

[ivanovbg]

If you can read the Rom file and parsed here, I'll explain in detail.
This model is very common in Bulgaria, but not have the original.

[antus]

Does it have a map sensor? And an reluctor in the distributor?

I'd expect a table which contains spark timing information looked up from the engine rpm and the pressure reading from the MAP sensor (or, althernatively, if there is no MAP then maybe the TPS).. It need to know engine speed and load, and exactly where its at to fire the spark at the right time.

Then it would usually also take in to account air temperature and coolant temperature, and offset the base timing a little based on this too.

[opel_droplet]

All the sensors involved in the EST system in question are listed in my first post at the beginning of the topic. An inductive sensor (probably what you call reluctor), 1 bar MAP, oil temperature sensor and distance recorder as mentioned in the wiring diagrams. That is all, nothing more nothing less