Fuel & fuel saving devices

[VX L67 Getrag]

I was wondering if anyone else saw the program on TV the other night showing the exact same model car Hyundai I30 I think with all being drained completely fuel tanks & had car running till they cut out then put exactly 3 Litres of each fuel in each car & drove till they cut out.
Results were something along the lines of;
95ron got 44Km’s
91ron got 48Kms
E10 got 50Kms
98ron got 55Kms
Diesel got 62Kms

Now don’t quote me on it as that’s just from memory, but I think it’s got holes in it as they didn’t use the exact same car & with running fuel pump dry each 1 could have burnt out more & cut out quicker next time it ran dry & I can’t believe 95Ron wouldn’t get more out of it than 91 for a start!

But also to add to this economy debate I had a guy come to the workshop today trying to get me to be a recommended fitter of something called econokit & said it can save up to 27% on fuel cost, but only guarantees 10% but most get minimum 15% & is only worth around $350 with fitting! Where as there supposedly another fuel saving device called hydrogen kits that are worth over $2000.00 & they only guarantee 5%.
Has anyone done any testing or heard of either of these?

[Holden202T]

yeah i think it would be better off doing a much longer trip to test stuff like that.

i guess the results are not too surprising, except for 91 ron ...

i'm pretty sure top gear did something like this a while ago with a diesel, petrol and something else, all the same car, filled them to the top then all followed each other to see which one ran out first etc.

the problem i have with the above is the small amount of km's difference between some of the fuels could be put down to things like not properly draining the tanks etc .... plus doing it over a full tank of fuel gives much more differentiating results.

mythbusters i think did something like that once too and they had a container on the side of the window with marks on it so you could see it dropping as they went along, this obviously works alot better on carby cars that can draw from a container better than an efi would require!

it really depends on the car though, i normally run 91 in my SV6 and get 10-11 l/100km and when going to 98 i pretty much don't notice a change in economy but you can feel the difference in part throttle response and such, but then if i was towing my race car on 91 its an absolute dog compared to on 98 ..... so in my case the above test might show virtually no difference with the 3 ltrs test but substantual cost difference, until you put the trailer on the back and then you would! (roughly 15-16L/100km towing with 98)

i suppose it all depends on the cars ability to handle knock too, if the timing is on the limit it will benefit from 98 more than if the timing is very conservative to begin with..... but i guess im getting into technical shit that your average TV show wouldn't even think about throwing to the public on TV because they just want to know if a certain fuel is worth it or not.

[antus]

My mate tried the hydrogen kit, against my advice, and did not find any improvement. Like all these things, the manufacturers can sell more cars if they have greater economy so the question becomes why arent they doing it if its real? With the hydrogen kits its easy to eyeball and know that its using power and thus adding engine resistance via the alternator and you can see that they generate at a few tiny bubbles of hydrogen then you think about how much airflow there is going through the engine when the car is idling let alone generating enough power to push it along and you can understand that the hydrogen by % has to be really tiny in the cylinder. So, is not significant enough to many any real difference. The better 'fuel saver' devices of any type make no difference, but some types like the 'electric superchargers/turbos' or anything else that sits in the intake path actually reduce economy as it is an intake restriction. When I last researched this I did manage to find one guy who was claiming that he got 30km more off a tank, and the thread went on for ages, and eventually they worked out that it made no difference, and it was just one certain petrol pump at one petrol station that was calibrated incorrectly! Of course everyone wanted to know what pump after that haha. But it took enough patience to get about 10 pages deep to find the real answer. Of course some people dont want to accept that its not true, and others just want to profit so you will never find everyone in agreement on the net.

[VX L67 Getrag]

well I think I might get 1 of the econokit's & see if it does actually work it just generates off heat from exhaust from tap/rain water & takes bugger all to install!

There is a seller in eBay america offering a single 1 cheaper with postage than I could get off the reseller here for testing!

[antus]

well be carefull, from the site:

How It Works
1: With a few minor modifications, the Econokit is installed to your vehicle, sitting safely under the engine compartment.
2: The container and catalyst humidify and alter the air which is taken into the engine
3: The humidified air provides a lower dew point, which in turn enables optimal combustion of your vehicles fuel.
4: As a result, your vehicles fuel is now burnt entirely so your engine consumes less of it during your journey.
5: By reducing the quantity of unburnt fuel, the Econokit also reduces polluting gas emissions such as CO2 CO and NOX.

If you are 'burning more fuel' then your going to read lean on the o2 which will then adjust your fuel trims to inject more fuel to compensate until the expected AFRs are measurable in your exhaust.

point #5 doesnt seem to make sense. Burnt fuel is converted to those gasses, so if its converting from unburnt to burnt....

I would assume that for a 20% increase in economy then 20% of the injected fuel is coming out the tail pipes and this will make it burn

Note that this is just my opinion and may not be correct, let us know how you go.

[yoda69]

Just get a "Polariser", easy to fit, no wiring and will make your car handle better as well.

[VX L67 Getrag]

Yeah I'm very dubious too Antus, but I like killing cats (not being serious animal lovers) just curious!

Yoda I wasn't sure polariser or polarizer was still around & couldn't find anything related to it on ebay apart from camera stuff?

[antus]

A brief history lesson:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Brock

Brock began publicly supporting and, eventually, began to fit to all Holden Dealer Team specials a device called the "Energy Polariser" containing crystals and magnets in an epoxy resin that, it was claimed, improved the performance and handling of vehicles through "aligning the molecules".[11] The device was based on the principles of orgone pseudoscience.[11] The "Polariser" is being sold once more in an official HDT, Brock tribute upgrade pack.

from http://www.brock05.com/VLandbrock.php

Then there was the item that by late 1986 was creating considerable conflict between GM-H and the HDT, namely the ‘energy polariser’.

Without offering any option on this device, it – that is, Brock’s endorsement of it – was proving more than a trifle embarrassing to GM-H as Christmas 1986 approached. Brock had been GM-H’s most influential and charismatic ambassador for more than half a decade. Then suddenly, he’s invented an "energy polariser’, declared its fantastic capabilities and watched GM-H react at first with "no comments" then later with an official rejection of the claims.

The HDT press release described the ‘polariser’ briefly as "a new development, which improves overall vehicle efficiency, ride comfort and stability." Among the claims made by Peter Brock for his invention were that it enabled a car tuned for super petrol to run ULP with no ill effects whatsoever. Such a claim is in defiance of all normal logic, but Brock insisted on the truth of it. He admitted that this was "way out thinking" but it was clear that his faith was beyond question or challenge. On the other hand, GM-H dismissed it in these terms; "as far as the energy polariser is concerned GM-H can see no technical merit in it and cannot endorse its use". Peter Brock’s clash with GM-H peaked in February ’87, with the announcement that the long-standing relationship with HDT and GM-H was over.

So, I guess you could get one.... and even brockie says its real

[VX L67 Getrag]

LOL, yeah I knew those basic's & I guess thats still left it up for who knows what it really does!

So not sure if Yoda was being sarcastic with that comment or not?

[vlad01]

Fuel saving devices? there shouldn't even be threads about it really.


Total bogus is my opinion.

only thing that actually works is having everything on your car up to scratch and more improvement when you reconfigure the engine design/ configuration.

my biggest improvements came from swapping to an engine that wasn't so worn and manual transmission. And possibly tuned length long runner extractors.

I reduced my fuel consumption by a 3rd. Got a little better than factory stated specs.