Alfa Romeo Motronic XDFs

Bosch Motronic etc ECUs and PCMs
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Re: Alfa Romeo Motronic XDFs

Postby festy » Tue Nov 26, 2013 2:03 pm

diouste wrote:hello
i see in this post 2 xdf for alfa romeo gtv v6 tb 2.0
what is the difference between the 2
are there any new xdf

thanks

They are for different ECU hardware and chips. The first number is the ECU hardware ID, the second number is the chip/software ID.

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Re: Alfa Romeo Motronic XDFs

Postby diouste » Fri Nov 29, 2013 12:43 am

i hAVE 2 ECU IN MY CAR

ALFA ROMEO V6 TURBO MY 96

INJECTION ECU O261203869 WITH 1267358696 SOFTWARE CHIP (YOUR XDF FILE)

IGNITION ECU 0227400232 WITH 2537355860 SOFTWARE CHIP

DO I NEED 2 XDF FILES ?

THANKS FOR IFORMATION

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Re: Alfa Romeo Motronic XDFs

Postby gbinsb » Fri Feb 21, 2014 5:35 am

Yes, to adjust the turbo pressure you also need the second XDF file for the EZK 0227400228 or 0227400232 ECU.

Does anyone have these? I'm also interessed.

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Re: Alfa Romeo Motronic XDFs

Postby regressor » Tue May 27, 2014 3:05 am

Hi, nice work there festy on making these.
Quick queston.
The 155_1.8_16V_TS_0261203846_1267358560.xdf is it for the 16v or typo?
The reason im asking is that i have a Motronic M1.7 0261203846 ecu with 1267358560 chip on two ecu's, both for the 8valve TS engine.

I have a AR 155 1.8 8v TS Sport.

I checked out the XDF you made for the alfa 75, AlfaTS_191.xdf. Tried loading the xdf with my own bin from the chip, and the scalers for the VVT seem to be giving correct values. Any chance i can use this to finetune the VVT?

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Re: Alfa Romeo Motronic XDFs

Postby festy » Thu May 29, 2014 8:34 pm

regressor wrote:Hi, nice work there festy on making these.
Quick queston.
The 155_1.8_16V_TS_0261203846_1267358560.xdf is it for the 16v or typo?
The reason im asking is that i have a Motronic M1.7 0261203846 ecu with 1267358560 chip on two ecu's, both for the 8valve TS engine.

I have a AR 155 1.8 8v TS Sport.

It sounds like it must be for the 8v in that case ;)
I compiled a database a while ago using a variety of sources, and here's what I have for ECU 0.261.203.846:
Code: Select all
+------------+------------+----------+--------------+-------+------------+
| ecu code    | chip code   | checksum | manufacturer | model | variant        |
+------------+------------+----------+--------------+-------+------------+
| 0261203846 | 1267358560 | 3FC6     | ALFA ROMEO   | 155   | 1.8 16V TS |
| 0261203846 | 1267358560 | 3FC9     | ALFA ROMEO   | 155   | 1.8 16V TS |
| 0261203846 | 1267358560 | 3DCC     | ALFA ROMEO   | 155   | 1.8 16V TS |
+------------+------------+----------+--------------+-------+------------+

A quick google shows mixed results - possibly it was used in both 8v and 16v in some regions?
From memory, the 75 1.6 ie, 75 1.8 ie and S4 spider all used the same ECU/chip - the Motronics are better than average at adapting to different engines without re-tuning...

Anyway, I'll make a note in my database that it's 8v too, thanks for bringing it up. Do you know what year models your two ECUs are from, and which country/market they were sold in?

The M1.7s are a bit tricky to chip tune, because part of the bin is stored in the MCU's ROM space and the eprom's address space is jumbled up to accomodate this.
Also, the checksum routine includes the ROM as well as the eprom space, so that's a bit more of a headache - but not impossible - my MotronicPlugin for Tuner Pro can download the part of the bin that's stored on the ROM.
If you have an eprom burner and want to have a go at tuning the M1.7, I'll give you a hand to get started.

I checked out the XDF you made for the alfa 75, AlfaTS_191.xdf. Tried loading the xdf with my own bin from the chip, and the scalers for the VVT seem to be giving correct values. Any chance i can use this to finetune the VVT?

Is your ECU using the 1267356191 chip? I wouldn't use that xdf on any other bin because the '191 code is different to all the other 75 TS variants.
Apart from that - yes, from memory you can adjust the VVT thresholds with that xdf.

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Re: Alfa Romeo Motronic XDFs

Postby regressor » Thu Jun 05, 2014 3:22 am

Hi thank you for clarifying :)

One of the ecus is from germany 1995 and from my 1995 AR155 1.8 8v.
The other is from australia and unknown year. From a AR164 2.0 8v.

Yes i have a Eprom burner, have only so far loaded the bins from the original ecus and loaded the bin from a squadra tuning chip for the 0261203846 ecu with 1267358560 chip. Just to check what they did different :)

I will check out that plugin for tuner pro and see if i can't get a hold of the data stored in the ecu itself.
Thank you for the nudge and reply :)

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Re: Alfa Romeo Motronic XDFs

Postby j.k.QV » Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:17 pm

Image

I have the following ECU from an Alfa 164TS (super, year 1996, motronic m1.7), that I am going to use in my 75TS.
The 164TS engine rebuild is in the closing stages, so I'm looking for info, if this ECU will be suitable for a ported head engine, and if it can be tuned to optimize higher rpm/WOT situations?

I plan on using slightly bigger injectors (18lbs/hr is stock, I plan on using ~21.35lbs/hr).
As far as I understand motronic should be able to get the fuel trim to acceptable levels on it's own for part throttle, although I'm not sure if it's going to lean out the top end?

Anyways, does anyone know if XDF's for this ECU is available, and if not - what would it take me to read, modify, test and write the modified program?
I have bought a 14point7 SLC Free WB controller, that I plan to use for logging engine performance, but I'm not yet sure if I will be able to connect to the ECU directly (to read other sensor data), or will I need to read the sensors directly?

I read the excellent thread on alfabb about Festy's work on m4.1, but as I understand things are not that easy with m1.7, so any help would be appreciated.

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Re: Alfa Romeo Motronic XDFs

Postby j.k.QV » Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:48 pm

Doing some baby steps here.
Managed to dump a 27c256 rom from an m4.1 motronic that I had. After a few hours of ironing out different bugs in my dumping setup, managed to dump a rom which exactly matches one found on the internet. success.
Image

Anyways my next target is to dump a rom from my 164ts ecu shown above (I can't find a rom matching it's numbers on the net).
Does anyone know, if the eprom chip the same on m1.7?

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Re: Alfa Romeo Motronic XDFs

Postby festy » Sat Aug 01, 2015 9:41 pm

Unfortunately the M1.7 is a little more complicated to tune, mainly due to the fact that the first 8kb of the bin is stored in the processor's masked ROM, and there's some address line swapping between the processor and eprom to re-map the eprom's first 8kb to the 32kb (8000h) address range.
This means you can't modify the first 8kb of the bin. None of the maps are located there, so that's ok - but the checksum function *is* in that region so you can't just disable the check, and it calculates the checksum across the entire address range so calculating a new checksum is a pretty involved process.

It is still possible though, I think I wrote a little program to generate the new checksum a few years ago - I'll see if I can find it.
When you get your KKL cable talking to the ECU, you should be able to download the whole bin, including the masked ROM section. If you compare that to a dump of the eprom, you should be able to see how the address lines are swapped around.
As for an XDF, if I haven't already made one then I'm sure I can put a basic one together.
Which chip do you have?
I know of two different chip codes, but there's a few variations of them: 1267358531, and 1267357022. I think I may have dumps of them both, pretty sure I at least have the 022 bin.

Nice work on the DIY eprom reader :thumbup:
I see you've got a 1267356191 chip there - that's the most advanced (and complex) ML4.1 bin that Alfa released, it's the one that I used as a base for my 160S real-time bin but I've never seen one in the wild :shock:
Do you know what year and market that ECU was from?

Re: porting/larger injectors, the AFM adapts very well to engine modifications without having to re-map. When the engine breathes better, the ECU knows about it because the AFM sees more air moving.
The larger injectors will require some adjustments though, you may get away with just scaling the 3 main fuel maps down by 15%...

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Re: Alfa Romeo Motronic XDFs

Postby j.k.QV » Mon Aug 03, 2015 7:15 am

Thanks for the response Festy!
I've received the KKL cables, but haven't tried connecting to the ECU yet. I'll try to connect to a m4.1 next week.
My car still runs on 4.1 motronic now, as the new engine (which will run 1.7) hasn't been finished yet (hopefully will be this month).
I've also received Bosch 4.9 wideband lambda and SLC free (B) controller from 14point7.com. I've assembled it and tested without the lambda connected, seems to work fine - so I'll install it in the car soon.
Can't figure out though - if I should use the wideband lambda instead of the narrowband I have in the exhaust and use simulated NB signal from SLC, or if I should add another bung and just monitor what the stock system is doing with a stock NB. Any thoughts?

My 191 EPROM is from the Limited Edition 75 Twinspark, I think it was year 1991 or so - it should be one of the last 75 TS's.

My plan is to make a data logger to log A/F ratio, rpm's, throttle position and VVT position to see what the stock ECU is doing with stock injectors and later with bigger ones. So that I can decide if I really need to change the fuel maps, or just leave them as is. Could I potentially do the logging with the motronic plugin with a stock ecu, or does the plugin only work with modified bin's?


Only had one day to work on the car lately. Managed to relocate battery to trunk, which should help a little with handling. Next step is to add the WB, add a data logger and then hopefully change the engine some time in August.

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