Alfa Romeo Motronic XDFs

Bosch Motronic etc ECUs and PCMs
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Re: Alfa Romeo Motronic XDFs

Postby festy » Mon Aug 03, 2015 7:59 am

I'd replace the stock NB with the WB, and use the simulated NB for the ECU's closed loop.

The datalogging with the stock bin is *very* limited - it will only work below 2000 rpm, and you can only request 1 value at a time. My modified bin will allow datalogging at any engine speed, and sends multiple engine parameters at once.
Datalogging the stock bin is really only meant for sensor/fault testing at idle, it was never designed for what we want to use it for...

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Re: Alfa Romeo Motronic XDFs

Postby andre » Sat Sep 05, 2015 2:44 am

hi festy.
can you please tellme if the xdf file for gtv 2.0 V6 Turbo, work in alfa romeo 164 2.0 v6 turbo?

if they work, have 2 ecus in my alfa 164, do you have the XDf with turbo boost limiter?


my programer arrives today, so im start with a simple programing like soft rev, in my other alfa romeo 75 2.0 T.s.
if you need some original binary files from my cars, just ask :)
toninght im gona read all chips and ecu informations / types.

keep with good work

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Re: Alfa Romeo Motronic XDFs

Postby festy » Mon Sep 07, 2015 2:27 pm

I have listings for 5 different ECUs fitted to various versions of the 164 2.0 V6 Turbo, and 4 ECUs for the GTV with that engine. Of those, only one ECU was used in both (0227400228) but with different bins used - so no, I doubt the GTV XDF will be much use to you.

If you can read the bin off yours, I can probably put together a quick XDF for you to start with.

I can't remember if I've worked on the boost limiter side of it before, if you can tell me the ECU # or get me a copy of the bin then I can take a look...

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Re: Alfa Romeo Motronic XDFs

Postby j.k.QV » Thu Sep 10, 2015 8:22 pm

festy wrote:I'd replace the stock NB with the WB, and use the simulated NB for the ECU's closed loop.

The datalogging with the stock bin is *very* limited - it will only work below 2000 rpm, and you can only request 1 value at a time. My modified bin will allow datalogging at any engine speed, and sends multiple engine parameters at once.
Datalogging the stock bin is really only meant for sensor/fault testing at idle, it was never designed for what we want to use it for...

Hi Festy!
Managed to connect to my ECU via VagCom KKL + 3 wire adapter (m1.7 from 164 TS Super, the same as 155 8v 2.0 TS) and here is the video:


Software is MultiEcuScan (free version, so I can only monitor up to 4 variables at a time).

Looks like you were right about the live data. It shows "high latency" warnings on the data line, when the revs are above idle and connection is not too stable. In the video, the intake manifold is incorrectly plumbed, and lambda heat is disconnected, so theres an error with the lambda reading.

The question is - now that I can connect to my ECU. What do I need to dump the whole ECU program?

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Re: Alfa Romeo Motronic XDFs

Postby festy » Thu Sep 10, 2015 9:34 pm

Nice work :thumbup:

I vaguely recall helping dump a bin off one of these ECUs a few years ago (I found the thread - see viewtopic.php?f=38&t=2327) so now that you have the comms side working you should be able to install Tuner Pro RT and my MotronicPlugin, load a M1.7 XDF, set the COM port in the plug-in config, connect to the ECU and start downloading the bin.
(then go read a book or something, it takes about 30 minutes to download the whole bin)

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Re: Alfa Romeo Motronic XDFs

Postby j.k.QV » Fri Sep 11, 2015 7:56 pm

btw. could it be a side effect of bigger injectors (+~20%), that the engine is oscillating at idle rpm?

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Re: Alfa Romeo Motronic XDFs

Postby Jayme » Fri Sep 11, 2015 8:00 pm

dont know anything about motronic stuff.... but with any injection system, if you put 20% bigger injectors in it, then it is putting 20% more fuel into your engine, everywhere, throwing out the whole tune... you need to wind the base injector rate back 20% to get back to where you were with the old injectors.
so, absolutely, the issue at idle could be because of your bigger injectors, if you havent tuned it to suit.

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Re: Alfa Romeo Motronic XDFs

Postby j.k.QV » Fri Sep 11, 2015 8:12 pm

Jayme wrote:dont know anything about motronic stuff.... but with any injection system, if you put 20% bigger injectors in it, then it is putting 20% more fuel into your engine, everywhere, throwing out the whole tune... you need to wind the base injector rate back 20% to get back to where you were with the old injectors.
so, absolutely, the issue at idle could be because of your bigger injectors, if you haven't tuned it to suit.

Yep - I haven't tuned it at all. The oscillation is much more pronounced when engine is warm ( and goes into closed loop ), so I'm guessing - it's having much bigger rpm swings with the larger injectors.

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Re: Alfa Romeo Motronic XDFs

Postby festy » Fri Sep 11, 2015 8:22 pm

The AFM based Motronics are better than average at adapting to changes without re-tuning, but I could imagine at idle it would still be swinging back and forth with larger injectors.

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Re: Alfa Romeo Motronic XDFs

Postby j.k.QV » Fri Sep 11, 2015 8:34 pm

I think the problem might be exacerbated by the fast switching lambda (I'm using a WB with NB simulation). The old original NB lambda seems to be dead, as it constantly reports 433 mV, although the WB is constantly changing the reported lambda around 1.0 mark +/- 0.15 at idle (and the simulated NB voltages also change quite rapidly).

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