Opel Vectra A 1.6 C16NZ Multec/Delco ECU disassemble

European GM ECUs and PCMs
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Opel Vectra A 1.6 C16NZ Multec/Delco ECU disassemble

Postby bundee » Mon Sep 26, 2016 8:43 am

Hello,

I have an Opel Vectra A fitted with 1,6 litre 8V (C16NZ) engine and a Delco ECU. First of all I have a problem with the engine control because if I start the engine, after a few seconds the idle goes below 5-600rpm and then back to 1100 and it repeats until 1. the engine stops, 2. if I push the throttle the idle speed goes up to 2000 rpm and after one minute falls back to the normal value. If I start without waiting for this procedure, the engine is sometimes jumping - it doesn't matter where is the throttle - then if I reach the ~2500rpm (sometimes it is not easy) the engine start working normally and never do this again unless if I restart it.
The car is converted to LPG with a Lovato mixture system if I use this, there is no problem, but it is an other fact.

The reason why I here is the following: my car has a Delco ECU APZW???? 161 33 759 which is very similar to the '808 and others. I found some stock binaries for these ECU and first I want to repair my ECU's functionality, second I'd like to tune it (if it is possible) ;)
I attach a photo of my ECU and two binaries from the same MY like mine.
My second question is which programs and tools are needed for me? As I read this forum I need a Tunerpro, some adf, xdf, adx files, a HW mod to the ECU (because of the missing uart chip). But how can I modify the ignition timing and the afr tables? If I have a disassembled binary, how can I recognize these maps/tables? Does anyone can help me to create disassembled file(s) and a short tutorial or some description for me?

I attach a photo of my ECU and two binaries.

Thank you in advance!

Best wishes,

Bundee
Attachments
WP_001211.jpg
photo of my ECU
APZW_0512.zip
2nd binary
(11.76 KiB) Downloaded 105 times
ARPJ_6531.zip
1st binary
(11.96 KiB) Downloaded 105 times

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Re: Opel Vectra A 1.6 C16NZ Multec/Delco ECU disassemble

Postby psyolent » Mon Sep 26, 2016 11:43 am

hey
basics first. is the engine healthy. no vaccuum leaks? everything sealed up and OK, no rattles, no noises, no deadness? no bad grounds.
it sounds like a sensor or something is not reading correctly to begin with you probably need to look at engaging diag mode at the least and seeing if you can see some output via the CEL - are all the sensors OK? do you have a DMM where you can backprobe sensors and make checks for good voltages, signals and earths?
also as its on LPG - when were your fuel injectors last looked at - how good is the fuel in your tank? normally cars on LPG gum up the injectors and the fuel goes stale, the fuel pump dies and other notorius things occur.
check too (not sure if this system is MAP or MAF) to make sure that load is being read correctly. your symptom sounds similar to one of ours with a 1227808 trying run without the MAP connected / leak in the line.

with respect your later questions - the FAQ is where you want to be.
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1396
Cheers,
Greg aka Sir Burnie Tanington

VX1 Berlina V6, VT1 Berlina V6 (Track), VN1 S V6, Hilux RN105 GMV8, Ford XP 170.

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Re: Opel Vectra A 1.6 C16NZ Multec/Delco ECU disassemble

Postby antus » Mon Sep 26, 2016 1:55 pm

It also might be worth looking at the IAC, could be sticky. But thanks for posting the pics and binary :thumbup:
Have you read the FAQ? For lots of information and links to significant threads see here: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1396

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Re: Opel Vectra A 1.6 C16NZ Multec/Delco ECU disassemble

Postby slewinson » Mon Sep 26, 2016 4:31 pm

Pretty sure this is the same family that my old Barina used. Have a search on this forum for Barina and you should find it. If this is correct it is not ALDL.

Simon

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Re: Opel Vectra A 1.6 C16NZ Multec/Delco ECU disassemble

Postby bundee » Wed Sep 28, 2016 7:08 pm

Hello!

There are no vacuum or other leaks, the engine is in good condition (only 250000 km in it), the spark plugs are OK. This was my first idea. Secondly I closed the vacuum controlled EGR valve but the behavior is the same. I usually use the car with petrol and LPG, sometimes I have longer trips (60-80km) with petrol on highway. Overall the petrol system is clean (new filter, tank&hoses clean).
In diag mode (A-B shorted) the engine runs smoothly. I've already checked the ignition timing and set to the default value (10° BTDC). This problem is not a sporadic issue, I have this car for 5 years and works the same as I mentioned before.

This system is a "classic" GM TBI 700 with D=38mm throttle valve, and 0,8bar fuel pressure with the following sensors/actuators:
- MAP
- coolant temp
- TPS
- inductive camshaft rotation sensor
- narrow band O2
- IAC
- injector
- octane coding plug

From these I've tried to replace all (to stock parts) except the IAC valve and the ECU. In diag mode with ignition on the IAC valve moving in-out without any problems.
I usually have fault codes 44,45 (mixture lean, mixture rich) and these set after cold start (usually together). As I know this system shall not go to closed loop mode in idle if the engine is cold (<80°C).
If I connect the A-B pins with 10kohm I have a 160baud ALDL data. With Multec Monitor 1.1 I can read out the version number of the ECU and I read AF0E instead of APZW (which is on the memcal sticker). I think this is the root cause of my symptoms this is why I want to look into the EPROM.

Thanks

psyolent wrote:hey
basics first. is the engine healthy. no vaccuum leaks? everything sealed up and OK, no rattles, no noises, no deadness? no bad grounds.
it sounds like a sensor or something is not reading correctly to begin with you probably need to look at engaging diag mode at the least and seeing if you can see some output via the CEL - are all the sensors OK? do you have a DMM where you can backprobe sensors and make checks for good voltages, signals and earths?
also as its on LPG - when were your fuel injectors last looked at - how good is the fuel in your tank? normally cars on LPG gum up the injectors and the fuel goes stale, the fuel pump dies and other notorius things occur.
check too (not sure if this system is MAP or MAF) to make sure that load is being read correctly. your symptom sounds similar to one of ours with a 1227808 trying run without the MAP connected / leak in the line.

with respect your later questions - the FAQ is where you want to be.
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1396

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Location: Budapest

Re: Opel Vectra A 1.6 C16NZ Multec/Delco ECU disassemble

Postby bundee » Fri Oct 21, 2016 7:24 am

Hi all!

Here are few pictures from my ECU. I replaced to an other one which has the same alpha code but 2 years younger. Until I put my original EPROM to the replaced ECU, the engine runs constantly 3000rpm :wtf: After I put my EPROM to the "new" ECU everything is OK. The engine runs smoothly, no idle problems, no DTC. Only one problem remained, this is the spark advance. If I set the rotor to the default position, sometimes the engine knocks when partially loaded :? In full load or engine break, there is no knocking. If I use 100+ octane fuel the knocking decreases, in LPG there is no knocking. But if I use regular 95 the engine sounds like a diesel :thumbdown:

Now I have an E(E)PROM burner, so I will read out the EEPROM-s and compare to each other.

I have only one question left: how can I recognize the eeprom image? I mean which part is the AFR table and the spark table etc? :roll:

Thanks!
Attachments
IMG_1833.JPG
driver state
IMG_1831.JPG
with memcal
IMG_1830.JPG

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Re: Opel Vectra A 1.6 C16NZ Multec/Delco ECU disassemble

Postby kojab » Fri Oct 21, 2016 8:18 am

Your ecu is very close to the aussie 808 just populated a little bit different in a few places. Will be interesting to look at your bin file when you download it.

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Re: Opel Vectra A 1.6 C16NZ Multec/Delco ECU disassemble

Postby bundee » Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:01 am

Hello,

I've downloaded the EPROM what I originally have in this ECU. I compared with two others what I posted before (ARPJ, APZW) I found only 2 differences:
-the first line always different - I think according to the alpha code or something like this:
0000-0010: 0e af 0b 7b-00 3e fa 2d-11 11 1e b8-28 96 1c 00 ...{.>.- ....(... <- this is mine (APZW0512)
0000-0010: 0e af 03 70-00 0e fa 2d-11 11 1e b8-28 96 1c 00 ...p...- ....(... <- this is an other APZW 0512 from http://www.doc-scorpion.narod.ru/ECU_Multec.htm
0000-0010: 0e af 06 b8-00 04 fa 2d-11 11 1e b8-28 96 1c 00 .......- ....(... <- APRJ

and the other difference in line 143:
0000-08f0: 5e 5f 60 74-65 65 66 6a-74 66 66 67-6a 74 68 68 ^_`teefj tffgjthh <- this is mine
0000-08f0: 5e 5f 62 74-65 65 66 6a-74 66 66 67-6a 74 68 68 ^_bteefj tffgjthh <- other APZW or ARPJ

I've tried the 808comms mod with a USB-TTL serial converter but I unable to catch any communication. I also tried with PCMFlasher what I found here but It says "no answer from ECU".

Now I have two ECU's to play. One of them produces the original issue (idle problems with DTC 44-45 in cold state) the other works fine except the knocing of timing advance.

And I have a third one, which is a bit different "flash type" ECU from 1.4litre this is an other "808" derivative. Part number below (later I will upload some pics). Unfortunately it does not compatible with the HEI module because it has a hall type camshaft sensor and a ignition amplifier.

...KW81 protocol initialized.

ECU ID=16149919-YW-9919-CB

Software=9919
Hardware=CB

Regards
Attachments
IMG_1913.JPG
table works
own_APZW_0512.BIN
original ecu bin file
(16 KiB) Downloaded 91 times

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Location: Sydney

Re: Opel Vectra A 1.6 C16NZ Multec/Delco ECU disassemble

Postby kojab » Thu Nov 03, 2016 10:54 am

bundee wrote:Hello,

I've downloaded the EPROM what I originally have in this ECU. I compared with two others what I posted before (ARPJ, APZW) I found only 2 differences:
-the first line always different - I think according to the alpha code or something like this:
0000-0010: 0e af 0b 7b-00 3e fa 2d-11 11 1e b8-28 96 1c 00 ...{.>.- ....(... <- this is mine (APZW0512)
0000-0010: 0e af 03 70-00 0e fa 2d-11 11 1e b8-28 96 1c 00 ...p...- ....(... <- this is an other APZW 0512 from http://www.doc-scorpion.narod.ru/ECU_Multec.htm
0000-0010: 0e af 06 b8-00 04 fa 2d-11 11 1e b8-28 96 1c 00 .......- ....(... <- APRJ

and the other difference in line 143:
0000-08f0: 5e 5f 60 74-65 65 66 6a-74 66 66 67-6a 74 68 68 ^_`teefj tffgjthh <- this is mine
0000-08f0: 5e 5f 62 74-65 65 66 6a-74 66 66 67-6a 74 68 68 ^_bteefj tffgjthh <- other APZW or ARPJ

clipped

Regards


I can help you a little bit here. I can't help myself, I love bytes and problem solving.

Firstly small error in your post. Line 0000-08f0 should read 08E0 - 08EF At 08E2 your APZW is 60 and it should be 62, either a bad read or a corrupted bin.
You might wonder how I came to this conclusion. I did a checksum on your bin file (this is mine) and it gave me FA 2B which I know is wrong because the checksum value is FA 2D at 0006 displayed above.

The difference between the true checksum FA 2D and the calculated checksum of FA 2B is 02 which is caused by the bin error at 08E2 value 60 hex.

Found a couple of tables for you.
-------------------------------

Main Spark: 009F ending at 014E
VE Fuel: 0511 ending at 05A0

With a few more weeks work you could find most of the tables.

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Re: Opel Vectra A 1.6 C16NZ Multec/Delco ECU disassemble

Postby bundee » Thu Nov 03, 2016 7:00 pm

Hello!

Thank you so much! :D I think in this forum we are all in the same "disease". I'd like to tune a 27 years old car with his oldie ECU. Maybe the others think it has no sense. But I love it :D

Back to the bins, I've done three more readouts. You are right with the addresses, I use an online bin to hex converter and it put this 0000 to all lines.
The _0 and _1 is the same the _2 probably wrong. And to clarify I attach a wiring about the system but I think it is the same as the others. When I tried the flasher stuff I forgot that it works only with NVRAM mod :(
On the other hand this "808 comms mod" seems like deaf. I've only tried to catch with hyper term in "engine stalled" position. Should it work with stock ECU or just with the modified?

Regards,
Attachments
c16nz_wiring.png
schematic
own_APZW_0512_2.BIN
(16 KiB) Downloaded 92 times
own_APZW_0512_1.BIN
(16 KiB) Downloaded 84 times
own_APZW_0512_0.BIN
(16 KiB) Downloaded 83 times

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