First RT Tuning Experience - OSE 12P BCLF based Camaro

[redcamaro]

Thank you for a very good explanation VL400, that's all very clear now. It's how I thought it works, but now I'm sure and I can move forwards without any doubt.

The error codes were due to a wiring issue with the VSS, which is now resolved - but I didn't reset the ECU. I'll do a reset 'at first light' tomorrow. Yes it did work before, I caused the issue when I split the grounds into 'System' and 'Analog' Grounds by not connecting one of the wires.

Yes I'm making quite a few mistakes, but with everyone's feedback and advice from this forum - I think I'm learning quickly and gaining an appreciation for the synergies in the system as a whole. It's the difference between running like crap, or running 'reasonably' well.

All the reference angle settings should be the same now, at 5.98 (6) degrees - that's where the crankshaft is curently set with a timing light. My earlier oversight of neglecting to set the Spark Reference Angle (out of diagnostic mode) is a pretty good example of how a little anomalie in the 'synergistic' system can mess things up. So too is a wiring issue, or a sensor not working properly.

I had a query about clearing the trouble codes... Earlier today, when the SES light came on I pulled over to put it into diagnostic mode and read them off. Then I pulled the ECU fuse for a few seconds - thining that would clear them. Put the fuse back in and the codes were still there (the vehicle had not moved, not even started)?

Anyway, (I didn't reset the ECU since the VSS issue) I did do some more logging and changing in the two Spark Advance tables and here are the log and bin files:

redcamaro_tune_004.bin

redcamaro_tune_00402.xdl

See redcamaro_tune_005 log in my later post.
I found that if I go too lean the wideband overheats and dies momentarily. I mean setting Map A: Run A/F Param - Displacement/inj flow rate (Litres/Grams per sec) leaner (0.11) than the kinjiflow result which was somewhere between 0.12-0.13.

I need to put another bung in the exhaust pipe for the wideband, it's obviously too close to the headers. It comes good again when it's had a chance to cool down, but the engine instantly switches to running like crap during that cool down period i.e. while the O2 sensor is 'unavailable'.

I might actually use the new bung for the narrowband too which will probably be in place when the ECU is not being tuned. The narrow band must be overheating too... Whoever made the headers put the bung too close to the engine.

Why? because there seems to be a sense of more power when it's running that little bit leaner. I think a wideband is too expensive, sensitive, and easily damaged running all the time in an everyday driver.

Great feedback everyone, it's appreciated - keep it up and I'll keep posting my experience.

[redcamaro]

Here is a log of an early morning drive, it's got a variety of conditions; Engine is cold to start with (had stop about a minute in to reset the ECU - almost forgot), there's a pretty good range of Road Speed, TPS, Gears, etc.

I noticed some knocking when the engine is at higher loads and RPM. I might want to reduce the Timing Advance in those regions?

The thing is how to know when the Timing, AFR, and whatever else is important for a good starting base, are optimal?

redcamaro_tune_00404.xdl

See redcamaro_tune_005 log in my later post.

It's running much better than it was in an untuned state, but I know it's got a lot more output hiding in there somewhere.

I see there is a measure of Knock Retard Degrees in the Monitors, is that automatically determined/calculated or is everything predefined? Could we use those values to improve the timing?

I was just looking at the graph of the Spark Advance Table in the default BCLF, and it peaks at 4800 RPM then drops sharply to a flat plane at 20.04 degrees. My stock Tacho has an orange line at 4500, and a red line at 5000. I think I should mention that this engine should easily handle about 7000 RPM.

[VL400]

I noticed some knocking when the engine is at higher loads and RPM. I might want to reduce the Timing Advance in those regions?

The thing is how to know when the Timing, AFR, and whatever else is important for a good starting base, are optimal?

A dyno to measure torque or careful road tuning with lots of logging, you want to run the least amount of spark advance for best torque.

I see there is a measure of Knock Retard Degrees in the Monitors, is that automatically determined/calculated or is everything predefined? Could we use those values to improve the timing?

You need a knock filter that suits your engine bore size and a knock sensor. Lots of info on knock sensors and filters on the forums and interwebs, the knock filter is the problem on modified engines that use a non-factory bore size.

I was just looking at the graph of the Spark Advance Table in the default BCLF, and it peaks at 4800 RPM then drops sharply to a flat plane at 20.04 degrees. My stock Tacho has an orange line at 4500, and a red line at 5000. I think I should mention that this engine should easily handle about 7000 RPM.

Tune it past 4800RPM then, your in control of the timing now and have spark control to 9600RPM The BLCF bin is a base for a stock standard holden V8.

[redcamaro]

I had to try this... changed both of the EST Idle Spark Advance and the MAP A: EST - 20-100kpa Main Spark Advance tables back to BCLF default settings.

Most outstanding feature is a flat spot when going back onto throttle immediately following deceleration. Standing start with WOT seems slower. Power seems similar, or maybe a little less. Fuel economy looks better.

The wideband has overheated and shut down again about 2/3 of the way into the log. Definatley needs to be moved away from the engine.

I think there's still the occasional knock, but not sure whether this was before or after the wideband had shut down.

Here are the files (with default BCLF Spark Advance) values:

These are the main files to look at redcamaro_tune_005_01 log, maybe use the earlier redcamaro logs as a comparison.

redcamaro_tune_005_01.xdl

redcamaro_tune_005.bin

My lack of tuning experience is starting to glow now, I've run out of ideas. Would anyone care to have a look at these files, and offer some feedback as to how we might proceed? Thanks

[redcamaro]

Thanks for the feedback VL400. I'd just like to clarify a couple of points.

A dyno to measure torque or careful road tuning with lots of logging, you want to run the least amount of spark advance for best torque.

I intended to use a dyne as a final step, when the tune is almost done... for WOT and higher speeds, etc - situations that are not appropriate, or safe on a road.

I don't mind doing lot's of logging but I'm not sure what to look for in the results. That's kind of the purpose of this topic.

Is there a list of all the OSE $12P variables somewhere? There are some with names like MALF, RDSC and "delta" that I'm tending to avoid because I don't know what they do.

You need a knock filter that suits your engine bore size and a knock sensor. Lots of info on knock sensors and filters on the forums and interwebs, the knock filter is the problem on modified engines that use a non-factory bore size.

Knock Count Logging is Enabled, but I think I read somewhere that the Knock Filtering shouldn't be used while tuning?

The engine is only 0.030 oversize, would that make a significant difference? I see you've done a lot of work towards an "adjustable knock filter", has that been achieved yet?

Tune it past 4800RPM then, your in control of the timing now and have spark control to 9600RPM The BLCF bin is a base for a stock standard holden V8.

Do you mean to leave the low RPM stuff for later, and that OSE $12P tables cover unto 9600 RPM?

[The1]

Abbreviations List

https://pcmhacking.net/forums/viewtopi ... 4029#p2489

[VL400]

Is there a list of all the OSE $12P variables somewhere? There are some with names like MALF, RDSC and "delta" that I'm tending to avoid because I don't know what they do.

And further to the1's post, try the FAQ for other common terms .. https://pcmhacking.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1396
Google delta, its a common mathematics term. Malf = malfunction

You need a knock filter that suits your engine bore size and a knock sensor. Lots of info on knock sensors and filters on the forums and interwebs, the knock filter is the problem on modified engines that use a non-factory bore size.

Knock Count Logging is Enabled, but I think I read somewhere that the Knock Filtering shouldn't be used while tuning?

The engine is only 0.030 oversize, would that make a significant difference? I see you've done a lot of work towards an "adjustable knock filter", has that been achieved yet?

You have enabled knock count logging but its clear from the logs you dont have a knock filter installed - the knock counts are always ~200 counts. You will need to find a standard knock filter and sensor for a 305 chev - I dont know what setup they use (some US cars have an external knock filter box). Your going to have to research this.

Tune it past 4800RPM then, your in control of the timing now and have spark control to 9600RPM The BLCF bin is a base for a stock standard holden V8.

Do you mean to leave the low RPM stuff for later, and that OSE $12P tables cover unto 9600 RPM?

No, I meant the spark table can be tuned using the points in it to 9600RPM. However I would be leaving the high RPM and load areas until you have a handle on things and get the low load areas sorted.

[redcamaro]

You have enabled knock count logging but its clear from the logs you dont have a knock filter installed - the knock counts are always ~200 counts. You will need to find a standard knock filter and sensor for a 305 chev - I dont know what setup they use (some US cars have an external knock filter box). Your going to have to research this.

Yeah I thought it was a bit weird that the count was constant (at about 200), I'll have to check that system out for a Malf too. I wouldn't have picked that up from looking at the logs - so thank you again VL400.

The Camaro has an external knock filter (Esc Module) so after I've checked it's status, and done some research I'll look into making it adjustable. I've had a look at (Esc Module)

I also stumble upon this topic https://pcmhacking.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1396 which is a handy link as a more general starting point for tuning novices like me.

If anyone knows of any good information sources or links on Knock Sensor systems please let us know. I think a real time tuning newbie, with a high performance engine and no knock sensor might be a bit risky.

[redcamaro]

Well,.. I guess that's THE END of this thread.

Thanks for all of your support to-date. Great work, a nice product.

[delcowizzid]

if your overheating o2 sensors you probably have nowhere near enough timing.