Sway bars, how to set them up?

[immortality]

Yes. With every Commodore model generation they increased the caster.

[Wade]

I’d be interested to take a deeper look into how holden went about setting up the vf’s. All the earlier models commodore didn’t really handle very well. The ve was a little better but still lacking imo. What I liked about the vf was that for a heavy car it actually felt very light and nimble. I was very impressed with the suspension.

[vlad01]

That's interesting for sure. I see they went this way with the VR, but on my VR with exactly the same shocks and bushes I found it to not be anywhere as nimble as the VPs and it tends to judder across the road on hard cornering far more and generally feel unresponsive in the steering. I reckon it's not the geometry changes, but rather the hefty increase in unsprung weight that was more negative than the positive of the geometry improvements.

I had driven a few VEs as hire cars back when they were new, and they handled really well. The VT was awful though, and the VY was better but still no where near as good as the VE/VF.

On side note regarding sway bars, I may have located a VP front 25mm bar which is the FE2 size on ebay close to me for a steal, exactly what I was saying that a smaller that stock bar would be dirt cheap because of marketing. Just confirming with the seller that he indeed did measure 25mm, it's listed as VP.

I want to go the Bilstein route again, they have an amazing ride quality, very quiet and smooth on fine bumps, firm on hard cornering and no juddering across uneven bitumen on hard turns. They seem to have achieved both ideal qualities which I didn't think was possible as I always assumed it was a compromise one way or the other. The only concern I have with them is the longevity and cushioning of the internal bump stops. I heard they are pretty harsh and I have seen them perish once as they are in oil, but no mention of how old that persons shocks were. My red VP had a very hard bang when going over large pot holes, but I reckon it was an anti-bottom out, when the shocks are too short for the springs, remember I mentioned above that the king springs were higher than standard and I only recently learned that they have a lowered shock and standard available and back then I am 95% sure there was no standard length option for the commodore, so I have confirmed it was the short version, so it would explain the bang which must be on the rebound. I would opt for the standard length version for this car. They call the stock and short versions B6 and B8, can't recall what is the short and stock model. I feel like the larger number means shorter, but I could be wrong.

My old company car a Nissan did that on all bumps and speed bumps, not on compression but on the rebound, badly designed from factory to not have enough shock extension for the height of the springs. That thing had shocking bump steer too.

[Wade]

Interesting. I’ve only ever heard good things about bilstein. Didn’t ol brocky use bilsteins back in the early days testing the vb around aus? Pretty sure I remember him talking about that

[Wade]

Quick google. Says they used the largest sway bar of any commodore in the vf. But does mention they used aluminium suspension components probably for the reasons you outlined earlier. Bit interesting that they used larger sway bars though. Be interesting to see if there hollow or solid or what there made out of.

[Wade]

I think I recall brocky talking about the old hdt’s. Said something along the lines of fitting the more heavy duty rear spring from the station wagons and they squashed the spring to lower it a little bit. Gave there early hdt’s better handling. I find it all interesting. I’ve tried many things over the years when it comes to suspension but seems to be a fine line to get it all right

[vlad01]

It could be something to do with the cars weight. I read a bunch of forums with rally type cars and there was a universal consensus that no sway bars at all was by far the best on gravel, or in many cases, no front and light rear.

On bitumen it was less drastic improvement but still an improvement in times and cornering grip having soft bars and that rear bias. Many still ran no front bar.

On the subject of no front bars. I had mine fall of twice years ago when driving all over Melbourne as a techie, I hardly noticed any change in body roll, but I certainly noticed the clunking haha. When I refitted the missing links, I noticed an improvement in small steering movements, felt sharper, but roll on hard cornering didn't change in any way that I could say for sure. So the bars def contribute stuff all for body roll for cars not using crappy suspension like VWs or tractors (same thing), exactly like explained in the video link I posted.

[Wade]

Agree 100% had same happened to me over the years. Only reason you know there’s something up with the links is the noise lol

[Wade]

https://youtu.be/60xgx7UAgUI?si=bWhMqcyc4B8dMxFF

[immortality]

I think a lot of issues come about from mismatched springs and shocks. You also need to look at the spring design, these days even the after market suppliers (like King Springs) have variable rate springs.

I have Bilsteins on my old VH with SL springs. Around town it's a fairly hard ride but open here up when she's moving it's planted and rides really well.

You should add a strut brace, it firms up the suspension a heap and improves turn in as you are taking of body flex. I had one on my old VN and it made a heap of difference, more so than I noticed on our VX.