FRAM NVRAM Board

[Jayme]

so apparently the 1.6L had no MAT but the 1.8L did.... those TBI memcals did use different code, which may have been able to account for the temp using coolant temp only? anyways if you plan on using 12P, is was designed to use a MAT sensor, so I highly recommend you get one and wire it in to the runner, and leave the coolant temp reading overall engine temp as it was designed to do. end of the day, if you place the sensors nearest to the location that they will read similar readings as the engine, which tune you are using as your base was using, then its less work for you to tune it.

12P comes with 3x base tunes, VN v6, VR v6, VR v8. all of which used MAT sensors.

I have used 12P for TBI before, but the AE is tricky to get right, as the TBI code used different AE logic as the port injected code, and 12P didnt include any of that TBI AE code.

[BennVenn]

I pulled the MAT sensor from a DaewoO Ceileo?? which runs the exact same system as the PFI N16. I didn't even know it was in the yard till I was walking out with the TBI loom.

Would you suggest then I stick with the TBI tune? Maybe tune the VE and spark on 12P then when I'm happy with it transfer it to the TBI Bin?

Do you have any info on the TBI AE code? I'd love to see it to see how far off I was on my own ECU coding. The whole reason I've gone with the delco is to get rid of that stumble from Idle. I also found a tear in a brand new distributor vacuum diaphragm so I blamed it partly on that. I made every 5th-10th injector pulse about 80% richer with surrounding pulses a little leaner when the throttle was closed. The idle quality dropped a bit but the off idle response was a lot better. I doubt that's how GM did it but I was out of ideas!

And if I must use the TBI binary, maybe I should build an EPROM emulator out of my memcal flasher, I'll have it trap and replace all access to the tables. There should only be a few K worth of map data right? This will easily fit in my MCU's working RAM and there is around 120kbytes of spare flash in there too. I could change MCU models and have up to 2mbytes of Flash ROM to play with... I wonder how hard it would be to make a plugin for tuner pro...

[slewinson]

Im talking about CTS in the oil as coolant is generally stable as is oil in an AC engine. head temps vary by about 70c from minute to minute depending on driving conditions. Oil temps in AC engines as well as normal engines depends on RPM, temp goes up with RPM and is only mildly effected by head/cylinder temps.

For example. if you cruise at 3000rpm on 5% TPS your oil temps might be 90c if you were to drop a higher gear and hold 1800rpm on 15% TPS the oil be likely 70c despite higher load. it all comes down to hydrodynamic friction of he oil between bearing surfaces. This heat generated from mechanical losses. Overall the oil temps are a suitable range and more stable. Head temps will just fry the sensor as type 1 heads can see over 200c sometimes. normally they sit 180 ish on the highway

In a water cooled engine, coolant temperature is essentially the same as the cylinder head and manifold temperature. In stark contrast, the VW engine's intake temperature will depend on the exhaust gas temperature to some extent as well as th cylinder head. These will influence charge density and temperature to a much greater extent than oil temperature in the sump.

The temperature range of the sensor is a separate issue that should not decide whether to measure the temperature in the best location.

Simon

[BennVenn]

The intake charge temp is usually about 10-15 deg cooler than ambient when cruising at about 50% throttle. In winter coming off the freeway the TB often freezes and takes 5sec or so before it snaps shut. Or you can punch the throttle and break the ice away. It is far worse with efi as the atomisation is better than a carb. Maybe I could plumb hot oil into the TB.

In traffic there is enough heatsoak in the bay that everything is hot and it doesn't matter...

[antus]

You would be far better off going mpi and running 12p. Its a much better system. The daewoo runs a similar system but it is 10 years newer and, well, its different enough that you can steal a few bits (iac) off it but you cant assume compatability. I tested mat but at room temp the resistance was significantly different so i quit there. Mpi 4 cyl pulsar camira or astra or commodore vn vp vr will do it.

[jenko]

I agree, with vlad in this case the oil is the major coolant and the cts should be in the coolant" and the air temp sensor in the inlet manifold .
the vw has an oil cooler in the fan shroud with fan driven by engine, much the same as a water cooled engine has an air to water heat exchanger with an engine driven fan.
I have much experience with air cooled Italian tractors and the oil and air to oil heat exchanger is very important and that is what controls engine temp

[jenko]

You would be far better off going mpi and running 12p. Its a much better system. The daewoo runs a similar system but it is 10 years newer and, well, its different enough that you can steal a few bits (iac) off it but you cant assume compatability. I tested mat but at room temp the resistance was significantly different so i quit there. Mpi 4 cyl pulsar camira or astra or commodore vn vp vr will do it.

type 3 vw has mpi manifold

[BennVenn]

Type 3 efi is too hard to come by and far too expensive when you do. Plus the chassis must be cut for the injectors to fit in the bay.

The plan was multipoint but with no PFI pulsar that left me with TBI. I'm going to pick up a vp loom this friday. But the TBI is already fitted so...

I even designed and sand cast the intakes. ..

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20160125_202946_Large_large.jpg (77.58 KiB) Viewed 4848 times

[vlad01]

You would be far better off going mpi and running 12p. Its a much better system. The daewoo runs a similar system but it is 10 years newer and, well, its different enough that you can steal a few bits (iac) off it but you cant assume compatability. I tested mat but at room temp the resistance was significantly different so i quit there. Mpi 4 cyl pulsar camira or astra or commodore vn vp vr will do it.

type 3 vw has mpi manifold

for a bug you'd want to use the Mexican EFI manifold, type 3 is quite different, pretty sure its wont fit without mods. type 3 ones use the very 1st generation bosch injectors with weird hold down flanges. Mexican bug late efi use modern injectors as they were still being produced til 2003.

[vlad01]

Type 3 efi is too hard to come by and far too expensive when you do. Plus the chassis must be cut for the injectors to fit in the bay.

The plan was multipoint but with no PFI pulsar that left me with TBI. I'm going to pick up a vp loom this friday. But the TBI is already fitted so...

I even designed and sand cast the intakes. ..

20160125_203004_Large_large.jpg

20160125_202946_Large_large.jpg

dude! you need to be casting v6 manifolds. Thats some talent there.