Holden 304 Banana Manifold

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HQ355
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Re: Holden 304 Banana Manifold

Post by HQ355 »

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vlad01 wrote: Tue Jan 02, 2024 7:24 pm Yeah I've done this tuning with a decently large cam on a 355, the COME manifold was a step backward in every way compared to the banana, even though logic said it should have performed better, at least at the top end. But it gained nothing there and lost everywhere else significantly.

Iirc, it was about 235@ 50 on the duration, somewhere mid to high 500 lift and 10 ish odd comp. It made the same power as Gareth's ecotec with arguably a lot more mods, but on a smaller 228@ cam and 540 lift cam and at lower rpm too. But interestingly the eco ran banana manifold and good heads, alloy ones with extensive re-work done here locally (as cast they were pretty bad, lots of mistakes). Both made around the 210 rwKw, the v8 was at I think 5600 rpm the eco was at 5000 rpm. Torque was higher on the eco iirc hence the same sort of power but at a lower rpm. The comp was crazy high though on e85 but not anywhere enough to account for the difference in nearly 2L and making it at a lower rpm and a smaller cam.

Also it's worth pointing out that the holden 8 has a notably larger cam per specific output than most engines used in our cars, which tells me that the heads are most likely the issue. It's also odd that the intake lobe is larger than the exhaust which tells me there could have been some band aiding done to try to improve some deficiencies.
Here’s the actual specs on the 355
It’s not actually a 355 as it’s running std bore still, only thing that’s been done to it is slightly more comp which is 9:2 and a baby cam, no where near the specs as quoted. It is basically a std motor, that’s why the come manifold never did anything. I have been collecting parts to make it go better and auto the manifold so stay tuned.. pic of cam card for reference
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immortality
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Re: Holden 304 Banana Manifold

Post by immortality »

That explains a lot, very similar to my mates combo. Actually goes OK but he does have COME 590 heads on it.
brindo
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Re: Holden 304 Banana Manifold

Post by brindo »

Reviving an old thread.
If there's any interest, this is the heavily ported manifold from the first page now on a running engine. The runner IDs were around 44mm and the neck where the throttle body bolts on is just over 70mm. Throttle body is bored out to 70mm.
Photos of the runner internals below.
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VR Ute Manifold.JPG
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VTXU8
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Re: Holden 304 Banana Manifold

Post by VTXU8 »

Any notable increase in throttle response?
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Gareth
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Re: Holden 304 Banana Manifold

Post by Gareth »

I’m planning a 304 build with stock manifolds for 2025, I too am interested in your before and after results. Also keen to know if you’d go the way you did again or would you get it extrude honed?
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brindo
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Re: Holden 304 Banana Manifold

Post by brindo »

Sorry I only been for a quick drive so far and have not actually tuned it yet. I have only just ordered the wideband so hoping that will be here in the new year.

I am hoping to build another Holden v8 in the next year or so too, and for me extrude honing is too much money. I think extrude hone takes around 0.5 - 1mm off the walls, and with the acid porting you can take as much or as little as you want. On this manifold, I have taken around 1.25mm off the runner walls to take them from 41.5mm to 44mm, and it could easily go a fair bit more, say up to 45mm - maybe 46mm at a pinch. Problem is I don’t know what size the runner diameter should be, so I don’t know what to aim for. But I doubt that extrude honing would get the bell mouths looking as smooth as what I achieved for the money. The casting dags and defects in the bell mouth are a lot greater than the amount of material extrude hone removes, and these star flap discs make short work of it.

So apologies I don’t really have any meaningful data to share as yet. My intention is to run this ute up on a dyno run after its tuned to get some power figures. Good or bad I will post up the results.
If anyone wants anymore details or what I did and how, am happy to help.
VTXU8
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Re: Holden 304 Banana Manifold

Post by VTXU8 »

All good. Keen to see how this all works out for you. Doing a rebuild on a VP 304 next year myself and I still have my old bananas from the VT.
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delcowizzid
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Re: Holden 304 Banana Manifold

Post by delcowizzid »

It's the runner length that holds them back but it's also what makes the manifold so good in the first place lol
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brindo
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Re: Holden 304 Banana Manifold

Post by brindo »

Runner length is well out of my league :) . That and heat soak. I did get the blower manifold on my one tonner ceramic coated. It was supposed to have come back with the industrial heat insulation coated on the underside (it’s a mission brown colour) to reduce the oil splash heat transfer, but they ended up just giving it the “appearance” coating which I suspect is just that, and less about heat. Water injection could work too but the water would displace some air flow and its more weight than the gain I guess too. And bonnet vents too, but I’ve never seen any that would suit a Commodore other than the Lotus Carlton ones. I do remember seeing some Mercedes Actrol truck vents cut into a bonnet and they looked ok, but wouldn’t do it on my car. So not many viable options to keep them cool.

The runner volume is a bit bigger too now by 12% or more, so maybe around the 700ml total. Possibly have gone too big in the runner diameter on this one, but who knows. If I have then will pick up another manifold and port it the same way I did for the one on the Calais with just a minimal runner diameter increase, polished bell months and the plenum and neck acid ported.
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The1
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Re: Holden 304 Banana Manifold

Post by The1 »

Keen to see results to, It's a hard ballgame to get right, there'd be a point where you loose to much velocity and power with it.

In my mind longer runners need the smallest diameter possible to keep velocity up just before power starts to drop, depends what power band your tuning for to perhaps.
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