Six_Shooter's "little" project v.240z

[EagleMark]

Sexy!

Didin't you end up with DIS or COP since then?

[Jayme]

It depends on the tuner. A lot of people are only tuning for drag so they're always at WOT and its good enough for them. 100% perfect would be a shape more like delcowizid's table which would work well for track work where you might back off a little but stay on boost depending on the corner. Tune it how you find your engine needs... Can always start flat then collect some logs and improve. But better to decide not to use all the table, than to need it and its not possible.

I'm tuning for everything, daily driving, racing in a straight line, not in a straight line, quick jabs to get out of the way, basically getting everything that a car should do.

So far I am reading different ways people use these tables, so I might as well try my own ways and see how it goes.

this is the core of it mate. you ask what is the point of having the boost table there at all... the answer is - to give you the flexibility to tune it however you want to.

[delcowizzid]

six did you see my last post before your last 2 posts its what your ve table will look like if it was joined as 1 table

[Six_Shooter]

Sexy!

Didin't you end up with DIS or COP since then?

I tried the COP, but the GM DIS ICM either didn't have enough current or dwell or both to run the Ford COP coils the way I had them set up. I haven't had a chance to swap the COP back on and use my friends 8 channel scope to see the waveforms.

It's been DIS for about 4 years now though.

[Six_Shooter]

six did you see my last post before your last 2 posts its what your ve table will look like if it was joined as 1 table

Yes, I did, and that is what I imagine for the two tables, a smooth transition from one table to the next...

[delcowizzid]

this car was getting daily driven and had to pass sort of emissions test to get certified for the v6 and turbo conversion.it still gets used to go back and forwards from work but the owner now has another v8 toy hes daily driving.that tune has a lot of hours in it as it was a blank canvas when i started and i had to create a lot of tables.if you could send me the bin you were driving on so i can see idle VE and maybe 100kpa VE if you even tweaked it to be close to correct fueling im sure i could make a base out of thin air that wouldnt take you long to get blasting round on boost.i run 60lb seimens dekas at 14psi and are going to run them out of duty cycle soon if i want to stay under 80%d/c 300rwkw is around 60-70 d/c at the fuel ratios i run to keep the old N/A block together

[Holden202T]

i'm actually beginning to wonder, if your saying you have done as per the tuning guide of setting up the boost table and your still going majorly lean, are you either maxing the injectors or running out of fuel pressure or something ?

the method outlined in the guide is more just a way to get a rough starting point for a tune and like antus said, part throttle on boost driving will see alot of areas of the ve table change from that of the flat copied numbers, but i have never seen anyone using the method in the guide have it go that lean on boost!

i agree with Delcowizzid post your bin up so we can do a sanity check to make sure you haven't got something wrong etc that might be causing it, i dunno if you have any way to check your fuel rail pressure while driving ?

[Six_Shooter]

i'm actually beginning to wonder, if your saying you have done as per the tuning guide of setting up the boost table and your still going majorly lean, are you either maxing the injectors or running out of fuel pressure or something ?

the method outlined in the guide is more just a way to get a rough starting point for a tune and like antus said, part throttle on boost driving will see alot of areas of the ve table change from that of the flat copied numbers, but i have never seen anyone using the method in the guide have it go that lean on boost!

i agree with Delcowizzid post your bin up so we can do a sanity check to make sure you haven't got something wrong etc that might be causing it, i dunno if you have any way to check your fuel rail pressure while driving ?

I can drown the engine when using $58/$59, so I know there's enough fuel there, the pressure is stable, under load and rises at a rate of 1:1.

I'm not going to post a bin, I don't like other people doing things for me, so it won't happen. Besides the bin I have was just a rough start, to see how things were working with this code. I hadn't really intended to drive on it, but once I got it running, I just had to take it for a drive. The driving in vacuum seemed great, nice and smooth, even seemed to make more vacuum under part throttle accel, than other code.

I will be starting from scratch anyway, because that's how I want to do it with this code.

[delcowizzid]

its all good im sure you can nail it you nailed 58 and 59 now get out and get into it i want to hear about the results LOL

[VL400]

Am pretty late to the party but I think the VE table needs to be explained as its being well and truly confused when boost is thrown in to the mix. My comment earlier meant what it read - you will not see double the VE going from 90kPa to 180kPa, it will only increase a small amount.

VE is volumetric efficiency, it is a VOLUME ratio that defines how efficient the engine can pump air. Compressed air is air that is more dense, it has more mass for a given volume. The engine pumps a volume of air in on the intake cycle, if the air is compressed to 100PSI or your at the top of Everest it still pumps a volume of air in. It does not begin to pump double the volume of air when changing the pressure from 100kPa to 200kPa. But, when you compress the air you can get more mass in the cyl for the same volume. This is why the ECU needs to know the MAP pressure, its calculation is all about injecting X parts of fuel mass for Y parts of air mass. So the boost multiplier is the fuel PW multiplier to compensate for the more dense air and ensure the ECU can still maintain the correct fuel/air ratio. You then use the boost VE table to define the engines VE at each load point just like you do in the 20-100kPa region.

The tables that delcowizzid posted are exactly as you would expect, around 15% or so better after efficiency after feeding in some boost. If designed/setup well the engine will operate more efficiently but certainly wont go anywhere near double the 100kPa values. If you see a VE table that goes from 100 to 200% under boost the ECU is setup differently and not strictly correct.

And while we are on the VE subject, why does VE go up when operating at higher altitudes with lower air density?