Vlad's rides thread

[vlad01]

Fitted all the new stuff with the filter adapter. Pressure still is the same so I guess the bearing tolerances are on the tight side for this engine. At least I know there isn't anything wrong.

The leak might have been the bung plug at the back of the adapter. I have never removed it but did notice it's way farther out than the new one, even though it's super tight but I found on the new one, the thread locker needed a mallet on the allen key to crack it open. So even if it was locked in place it might have not been driven in far enough to seal properly.

I will find out in a few days if the leak is gone. I did remove the plug during the cleaning process on the new adapter and sealed it with loctite 515 flange sealant.

[vlad01]

Well I had some sort of clutch disk failure. Still drives mostly ok, but gearing down is very hard and with the engine idling as I roll and progressively gearing down with the pedal held in the whole time there is a very fast and harsh vibration. I think a section of the disk has blow off and now it's badly out of balance. Or perhaps rivets or something holding the outer disk has failed and caused it to shift over, not sure but it's the disk for sure.

So being tight on cash, I have just ordered the disk. I have a bearing and other bits new spare in the shed.

I ordered a new fork cover as the old new one has been incinerated due to the tune being too rich and making the exhaust headers glow red. The same goes for the cable, it's now worse than the 30 year old one I replaced not even 2 years ago. So to be sure they last and can tolerate heat in the future I also ordered some foil wrap around insulation that is 20mm ID and self adhesive on the seam, and some foiled exhaust wrap so I can wrap up the small section near the fork cover.

I figured since the gearbox 2nd synchro has been toast since we got this box used and also a very noisey chirpy 5th when cold, prob a bad bearing. I am looking at all the used and left over bits of T5 and the blow donor. Apart from new bearing I should have everything needed to quickly chuck together a decent working box. The one bearing I could not find anywhere as it seems to be spesific to BTR here in Aus than the OEM Tremec or BW t5 in the states, is the pocket 10 roller bearing for the input shaft. In the US they use 15 loose rollers held in place with grease during install, but I hate that idea as I have seen a roller fall between the end of the main shaft and the input pocket and it ruins the box, even if the install feels normal.

But! I just realized this after like 6-7 years. The loose rollers are the same ones in the cage of the 10 roller and they can be popped out.


So I had this 600k one from my old Vacationer that worked fine but one roller was badly chipped.

I tapped with a wood block using the corner edge on the roller from the outside and the roller pops through to the inside.

I knocked them all out and then used a steel rod with a flat ground on one side to balance on top of the roller from the inside of the cage and forced a fair bit of pressure on the 2 ends of the rod either side and they popped in, one by one. Now I have a new Aus spec bearing and now don't have to try and track one down for this box or and of my future builds, just use the rollers supplied in the US OEM overhaul kit which contains everything needed now to do the Aussie variants.

New roller installed.

Old ones with 600K + on them, I wonder how many billions of times these things have rotated

[Charlescrown]

Good to see it worked out. That bearing is definately a special made one but I wonder if you can buy the rollers off the shelf at a bearing supply company.

[vlad01]

Should be able to, but they come with any T5 overhaul kit, even the aftermarket ones.

CBC might get them in, I have found most of the bearings in the T5 can be purchased via any of the bearing mobs and still have the genuine Timken units. Even the special input shaft seal I was able to get the exact one from CBC, same manufacture too. Haven't looked into the torrington bearing yet but I have not had a bad one yet, so they most often can be reused.

On the subject. Apparently there are carbon fibre lined blocking rings these days which were designed by Tremec for the late model T56 and newer models to deal with ever increasing rpm and gear heft to deal with power output these days, the heft adds to the train inertia which makes it harder for the ring to do the braking, thus a need for a liner material that can handle these demands. Another reason is some manufactures are reducing gear diameters to get less losses, and therefore the blocking rings need to get smaller, smaller means more work per surface area to make up the loss, which leads to again needing a better material.

T5 all came with paper lined rings. So I have found carbon fibre ones but I don't know for sure if the genuine new Tremec ones are these or if it's just some of the aftermarket ones or both.

This will be a great upgrade! All my older T5s with some ks struggle with high rpm changes, now that makes sense.

[immortality]

Fairly sure a mate recently bought a T5 rebuild kit with the carbon fibre liners you mention. No idea if genuine or what not.

[Charlescrown]

Yea I think the T5 had a few issues. A mate was building them for race cars and in std format they were destined to fail. If it was the T5 they had tapered rollers supporting the cluster gear with heaps of end float from the factory. He had pretty much perfected them for reliability on the track when the car owner bought a super car sequential gearbox and that proved extremely reliable so they never went back.

[vlad01]

You can get billet steel cluster support plates, I have one in stock but I am having trouble getting another as the seller is not doing international shipping atm, I believe this is because of the loctite. Guess the shipping cracked down on liquid substances, fair enough but I need to ask if he's send one without the loctite included.


I never had any real problems with the T5, only some with ks on them had this high rpm clash on some gears, this is just a limitation of the liner material and probably poor service in their previous life. When these were designed, they were made for the lower revving mustang engines of the time so later engines with the T5 that had higher revs and race applications struggle. I believe the carbon liners bring them in line with modern manual boxes made today, some now use sintered steel rings for even more performance but they chew out quickly apparently, so the carbon ones are currently out best all round tech.


One of the best T5s I have ever had was the 600+ k one in my vacationer, I power shifted that every change I got for years on end and no problems at all. There were a few minor things broken after overhauling it but was in good nick for the ks and abuse it had done.

[Charlescrown]

Yea I remember those paper based synchro's. I suppose when you think abt it auto trans have been using paper coated clutch plates for decades and they do last but the carbon ones your talking abt (which I havent seen) make sense for a little more enthusiastic driving reliability.

[vlad01]

The paper ones have no longer been a thing in OEM for some time from what I read. Mainly developed as a necessity for higher rpm engines makes them much better for aggressive driving too.

Not sure what my red car had, but I'm fairly certain they will be carbon ones as I built the box in 2017 and I vaguely recall bit of black contaminated fluid coming off the main shaft assembly when I poured some ATF over it before feeding it into the case.

[vlad01]

Spoke to Tony at Astro. He's back in business again.

This was his response when I asked about the carbon rings.

"Good morning. Thank you for the message. To address an answer to your question, we need to start with when the T-5 was made by Borg Warner (Pre 1997) the 1st/2nd Synchronizer Rings had middle/center wear rings that were made out of the same Orange Clutch Material that Automatic Transmissions used. The same held true for the 3rd/4th Synchronizer Rings. But, the 3rd/4th weren't the same material as 1st/2nd. After Tremec purchased the light duty side of Borg Warner they decided to make changes to 1st/2nd in the late 2000's. 3rd & 4th had already been changed by Borg Warner in the 90's to the Carbon Fiber Design. Tremec introduced Carbon Fiber Lined Middle/Center Wear Rings for 1st/2nd. When they did this, the Cone Angles on all 3 rings servicing 1st & 2nd changed. So, if you went to repair a T-5 Transmission it was very important to replace all 3 rings for 1st and/or 2nd gear. If you didn't, you could have issues with Assembling Transmission and/or shifting once installed in vehicle. Today Tremec still uses the same design Carbon Fiber Lined Rings for 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th used from the late 2000's. Of course 5th is brass...it never changed from the early days.

Now, there are aftermarket companies making T-5 rings in Carbon Fiber. But, the one company that makes them is out of China. The inner steel synchronizer rings are too thick when assembling 2nd gear on mainshaft. And, mainshaft 2nd gear will lock down and not turn...unless you remove material from the inner steel ring. This is why we only sell OE Synchronizer Rings as the end user usually doesn't have machines to modify parts sold.

All in all the Carbon Fiber Lined Synchronizer Rings are great for shifting. But, shifting actually starts at the clutch releasing properly. If the clutch isn't releasing it doesn't matter what design synchronizer rings are installed..it won't shift! Hope this helps."


This kind of info is gold.