Heresy - Interceptors and HHO

[antus]

Yeah, hydrogen is definatly good to green up steel smelters versus burning coal too.
https://reneweconomy.com.au/gupta-to-st ... r-instead/

[BennVenn]

So I shared my findings with Gavan, he's the man behind HydrogenFuelSystems.com.au and the $5000 HHO kit. This is what he had to say:

HELLO Ben

Thanks for y9ur data… looks interesting and when I get time I will look further into it

Our tests also produced savings and torque increase from low RPM

Its not so much as a Power increase but rather sufficient power to deliver the required speed with less throttle , and so less fuel .

We did dyno testing for some time before changing to record real life situations of fuel economy increase on a number of different cars, suv’s, small and large trucks generators and trawlers.

The torque increase was evident. The Power output is directly related to the speed of the vehicle and to achieve the required speed a fixed amount of Power is required ,… we found the fuel consumed was siginificantly reduced… We also had sensors on exhaust gases and found massive reduction in CO, CO2, carbohydrates, SO2, nitrous oxide, particulate matter,,,,, certified details shown on webpage



Gavan

So I guess even though they state up to 50% increase in torque and HP, I personally shouldn't expect any increase in power or torque, rather, it'll make more power for the same throttle input.

So by Gavan's logic, I should be able to run the dyno in steady state and lock the throttle to say 30% then see the torque increase with HHO turned on vs off. I did this and there was zero change at ANY throttle position, manifold vacuum or load.

Gavan said he has dyno graphs but he'll need to find them as they're lost on 8 external hdd's. Yup.

And him changing from actual dyno results, to user anecdotes sounds exactly what you'd expect from a 'Physicist, Engineer and teacher'

As much as I wanted this to work, I'm gonna chalk this one up to pure 100% snake oil. If it can't be seen on a dyno, it is not real.

Oh and after asking the same questions on the various snake oil FB pages, I'm told that it's not a science and that it all depends on the orgone energy built into the kit. It is why some kits will just not work, and ones that do might not work if installed into another vehicle. Quote attached from the FB admin:

You can make one HHO generator and put it on 10 different vehicles, and on one you will have success, but on 9 not. Or make 10 different HHO generators and try on one vehicle, and just one generator works. This is not about gas quantity and electricity consumption, but about energy content in water (life energy, orgone, prana, chi, zpe, quantum vacuum, etc). Success depends on intuition and experience

[Charlescrown]

As soon as I see those gain figures it stinks of snake oil. Many many years ago there was an engineer named Duncan McWade who lived near me so I took the opertunity to visit him. He had designed and made a revolutionary device to swirl the incoming air and like many big savings on fuel and power gains. He really was a lunatic and had gone insane in my books claiming the oil companies had a price on his head. Theres another that made CDI ignitions which I bought one (still got it) and it did make a big spark but made diddly squat difference. The list goes on.

[BennVenn]

haha there's still one of those swirl turbulence generators inside the air cleaner in my F350. It looks homemade, out of an old bean tin maybe? Got to be as old as the truck. I'm sure it does nothing but can't hurt right... Maybe I should get it on the dyno and find out!

[Gareth]

Yes, please do that!

[Charlescrown]

Im benign to put anything like that in my intake thinking it may break apart one day and get swollowed by the engine. I remember the aircraft students making them but never did see the results.

[antus]

For an old F350 the intake probably isnt precision, but those little blobs that hang off the side of the plastic bits of modern intakes I have learned are there to tune out resonance for better airflow and/or metering where air might reverberate and cross back over the MAF hotwire and be metered multiple times. Either way, if you 'swirl' the air as the factory didn't intend you are likely to get worse results than better on a car like that. I guess if you modify intake and flow more air, that is when a net gain is possible. If you are playing with intakes you can do multiple power runs and look at the MAP and see which intake gets MAP close to 100Kpa for an NA car. Sometime aftermarket intakes are worse than stock, even if they look sexyer. Thats my tangent for the day.

[immortality]

Where is the logic of putting a swirl generator at the throttle body/intake when the air still has many turns to make before it reaches the valve/chamber. If it was truly going to work you'd need it mounted somewhere in the runner before the valve. But then you listen to guys like David Vizard about controlling air flow through the port/valve and probably realise there isn't much point.

[vlad01]

4AGE garage on youtube tests all these type of things on the dyno and covers all the variables that might influence the result in the wrong way to make it as accurate, repeatable and scientific as possible.

Gareth, remember the speedway car with 2m+ long intake pipe and how that gained power? This guy went nuts on that concept and verified what we saw indeed was correct.

[Charlescrown]

Before my time Diesels had a swirl mask on the intake valves to do just that. The valve had to be keyed to prevent rotation so bring in cost and complexity and it disappeard long ago. Antus those bulby things on the intake ducting may indeed influence the air flow because I believe their actually a resonator which yes dampens air pulsations. I have removed them and haven't noticed any change but yea a dyno would confirm it.