pcmhacking.net

they need to be wide band sensors though or they are of no use.

Holden202 wrote:they need to be wide band sensors though or they are of no use.

Can you explain the difference for a computer dummy please

well as i understand it a narrow band sensor is most common on efi cars ... its range is something like 11-12 to 16-17 but it is more accurate over this range (so i've been told) whereas a wide band covers i think mine said 9 to 22 or something like that .... so for tuning if your way out this will display it and make it easier to tune but as above its not as accurate .....

also alot of the widebands have more wires, mine is a bosch unit and has 5 wires, i believe this makes it respond faster to changes in air/fuel ratios .....

Narrow band and wide band, think of the words that are being used. "band" is like saying "range" as far as measuring Air/Fuel ratio goes, and the "narrow" and "wide" is like saying "small" and "large" So you have Small Range and Large Range sensors.

The narrow band (small range) sensors are accurate around stoich (approx 14.7:1 air/fuel ratio) but aren't very accurate either side of this a/f ratio. The ecm/pcm basically uses this sensor to see if A/F is stoich, rich or lean but can't really see how rich or how lean because the band (range) of the sensor's accuracy is narrow (small)

The Wide band (large range) sensors can accurately measure from about 22:1 to 9:1 A/F ratio so it's measuring band (range) is wider (larger). This makes it extreemly helpful and quicker for dialing your tune in accurately.

Hope this helps,

Dave.

Delco,i should have 1 lying around here for you.I think its a 5 wire LSU..can't remember if its a bosch or NTK
Email me your address and i'll send it up to you sometime this week if i can.
It's a freebie mate.....it's all part of testing on https://pcmhacking.net

Hopefully the attachments below will help make sense (google images is great too search with).
As you can see a narrowband is typically only accurate around 14.7 +/- 0.5, where as a wideband is linear between ~10-20.
With a wideband, a stoich of say 12 is very accurate, with narrowband it is bit of a guesstimate.
The narrowband is little bit misleading, but for A/F ratios between ~15.5-20, the volatge change may only be .05 Volts, whereas between 14-15 the Voltage change is ~0.9 volts.
Hope this makes some sense and doesn't muddy the waters too much.

correct the narrowband is only good for around 14.7 it the ecu just swings it each side of 14.7 to keep the ratio at what is needed where the wideband can ouput the exact ratio the drawback is that the wideband isnt very good at measuring the 14.7 ratio the narrowband is far better at this ratio from what i hear.but for full throttle tuning the wideband will be awesome
chears mario sent an email just before i will get a new sensor later when i find an easy sorce to buy them from at the cheapest possible price they arnt the cheapest thing around.im hunting for the plug to plug into it and a length of harness attached as well if anyone knows where any late model VW wrecks are they could cut one off for me.
have written a reveiw on the controller in the general tuning disscussion forum if anyone wants a read.more pics there.

A wideband is effectively a narrow band sensor element, its just that it uses a pump cell to add/remove oxygen to get the nernst cell (the sensor ellement) to read stoich - yes a wideband can really only read lamba 1 too! How much oxygen is added/removed determines how far on either side of lamda 1 the gas is that is travelling past it. The controller then spits out a voltage representation of this.

So I think widebands are generally considered as in inaccurate for reading lambda 1 only because the voltage change is smaller for an afr change either side of stoich - a narrowband gives a very clear switch like output.

Heres a log from my car running closed loop. The upper pink line is the wideband and the lower is the narrowband output....

my sensor is on its way so testing soon.

I'd be interested in integrating WBO2 into a Delco as well Currently own a Techedge 2J1 This product was great for tuning the Carbies. Would recommend this unit Cheap heaps of features and software is easy to use. The output can be adjust to suit Factory ecu as it can simulate Narrow band sensors. Was looking to use this unit on my Delco Conversion or at least in the testing stages.