VT1 - How Much Rear Camber

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Re: VT1 - How Much Rear Camber

Postby psyolent » Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:32 pm

picking up a new rear cradle with adjustable toe bars sometime this week.
Cheers,
Greg aka Sir Burnie Tanington

VX1 Berlina V6, VX2 Berlina V6, VT1 Berlina V6 (Track), VN1 S V6, Hilux RN105 GMV8, Ford XP 170.

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Re: VT1 - How Much Rear Camber

Postby yoda69 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:13 am

Make sure you get the full assembly as the unused mounts on the VT trailing arms while similar are in a different location to the later mounts with the factory toe link.

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Re: VT1 - How Much Rear Camber

Postby psyolent » Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:46 am

yes yoda, getting the entire thing mate.
Cheers,
Greg aka Sir Burnie Tanington

VX1 Berlina V6, VX2 Berlina V6, VT1 Berlina V6 (Track), VN1 S V6, Hilux RN105 GMV8, Ford XP 170.

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Re: VT1 - How Much Rear Camber

Postby oldn64 » Fri Sep 21, 2018 12:16 pm

immortality wrote:Yep, they saved on costs not welding on the brackets for the toe links...

It's a shame I can't change the rear subframe on the VS to the later spec unit :(


Um immortality the cradle is able to bolt into the VS. the cradle itself did not change in bolt pattern or width. Only the arms and the drive shafts did. I have a VXII rear ready to go into the VQ. I also have a set of VQ rear arms spare which I intend on adding the links to to allow VQ width with VX adjustability, this will allow me to put my larger rims and offset back onto the car and gain better control of the rear. Yes your tabs will be in a different location to the VX ones. I am not sure whether the extra arms will be able to be made to work as I have nto got to this step yet, but at least your arms have the tabs. I have to cut up a VX one to weld onto my arms.

Yes Holden cut costs and corners. You will also find it is one fo the reason why v8 rear cradles crack too.

psyolent wrote:yes yoda, getting the entire thing mate.


The process to swap over is not to difficult it is just very involved and I would recommend doing it with two people. When I have done it to 3 cars we have swapped everything so as to keep the alignment somewhat right and so it is in one big lump. Make sure you lock-tight the bolts back in for both the diff and the cradle. You should be replacing the bolts (leading one for the cradle and the diff bolts) as they are torque to yield. However on all the ones I have done the reused bolts have not cause me any issues. I do however understand the metal stress side and therefore play on the right side of shearing the bolt.

The VX S1 ute I did we had to upgrade the bearings (being a ute and all) BUT you need to use the wagon arms as the ute shocks mount the same as the wagons. MAKE SURE YOU GET A SEDAN UNIT as they will bolt in but your shocks will not work, or connect for that matter. If you are planning on curb hopping then i would consider using the UTE bearings in the arms so that you get the extra loading. All race cars with this rear I have setup have 2.5* camber on the rear and we run 5.5* at the front. Mind you our suspension is running 12kg fronts and 10kg rears for the track therefore we needed to lay the front over a little more due to the OUTER of the tire being eaten. With this setup it allows the piggy VT-VZ to actually steer through corners instead of roll and buck.

If you upgrade to 18" rims (if your class will allow) you can get alot of access to the v8ute rubber which can be sold very cheaply, if you are on a budget. There are a number of ways to get to the 18" rim. Let me know if you need ideas.

Your bigger need will be making the thing stop!

above all have a ball.....! it is alot of fun. :thumbup:

cheers
oldn64

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Re: VT1 - How Much Rear Camber

Postby psyolent » Fri Sep 21, 2018 2:10 pm

i have R33 Skyline calipers which are destined for the front of the thing. Its only at atmo v6 and its use case is simply punt around sandown on track days mate so no class type issues except for dbA with noise, ie: no open pipes. With the fat cunt driving it I'll need all the stopping power ever too.
Cheers,
Greg aka Sir Burnie Tanington

VX1 Berlina V6, VX2 Berlina V6, VT1 Berlina V6 (Track), VN1 S V6, Hilux RN105 GMV8, Ford XP 170.

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Re: VT1 - How Much Rear Camber

Postby immortality » Fri Sep 21, 2018 2:59 pm

oldn64 wrote:
immortality wrote:Yep, they saved on costs not welding on the brackets for the toe links...

It's a shame I can't change the rear subframe on the VS to the later spec unit :(


Um immortality the cradle is able to bolt into the VS. the cradle itself did not change in bolt pattern or width. Only the arms and the drive shafts did. I have a VXII rear ready to go into the VQ. I also have a set of VQ rear arms spare which I intend on adding the links to to allow VQ width with VX adjustability, this will allow me to put my larger rims and offset back onto the car and gain better control of the rear. Yes your tabs will be in a different location to the VX ones. I am not sure whether the extra arms will be able to be made to work as I have nto got to this step yet, but at least your arms have the tabs. I have to cut up a VX one to weld onto my arms.

Yes Holden cut costs and corners. You will also find it is one fo the reason why v8 rear cradles crack too.


cheers
oldn64


That's good to know. Are the arms different or just the hub offsets like VQ to VR/VS?

It certainly opens up options depending on what I find under the ass of the old girl.

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Re: VT1 - How Much Rear Camber

Postby oldn64 » Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:57 pm

psyolent wrote:i have R33 Skyline calipers which are destined for the front of the thing. Its only at atmo v6 and its use case is simply punt around sandown on track days mate so no class type issues except for dbA with noise, ie: no open pipes. With the fat cunt driving it I'll need all the stopping power ever too.



HAHAHAHA no open pipes :silent: (75Db ruling is at 30m from the track, the DB from the car directly can be as high as 120Db, infact my vl is 101Db and a mates VK is 115Db, we are both under the limit (but my neighbors dont complain when i get home either).

Trust me Sandown eats brakes. Which club? You will still need to have the ability to stop the bloody thing. if doing the right things you should be hitting 220 down the back and front straights. Your times should be in the realm of a 1:32, you should not be slow. A mate started with a similar vehicle and his first session out was a 1:41, his PB now is a 1:37 and does not have confidence due to a huge off he had at Dandenong road end. However, he does a 1:42 at Winton, both of which are not slow. He has only been racing with me for 18 months and we are actually hoping to get out for the cup day event as per normal at Winton again this year. All depends on whether I can get my car ready for the event.

Happy to instruct if you require pointers, but I will tell you two very important things. Winton is a very technical track and will make you board of Sandown. This is a every addictive sport and one if you do not set a budget will be like a drug.

immortality wrote:That's good to know. Are the arms different or just the hub offsets like VQ to VR/VS?

It certainly opens up options depending on what I find under the ass of the old girl.


Yes the arms are different between VQ and VR/VS, this is why alot of "show car guys" who want huge dish on the rear use the VQ arms (if they can find them) most VQ's got upgraded to the VR/VS to get the ability to use standard off the shelf aftremarket rims so it is harder to actually find a VQ with VQ arms.

The difference in the VT onwards arms is that the hub and bearing are different again. I am not sure on the arm side of things but they all interchange. I have done a VS Statesman upgrade to the VT hubs because the person wanting to do it wanted the VT rear brakes to match teh fronts so did a conversion. I personally would have just swapped the arms but this guy went to the effort of changing the bearing and hub into the VS arm.

Now while I have not checked the arm differences between the VT and the VR/S the above method did not change the track or offset at all in the VS so I would expect them to be identical. The VT bearing will fit the VR/S and I actually plan to put the VU bearing into the VQ when I am finished to allow better towing capacity

I do have a VT arm her but not a VR/S currently. I will have a look and see what I can organise to try and give a better comparison.

cheers
oldn64

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Re: VT1 - How Much Rear Camber

Postby immortality » Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:52 pm

Somewhere I've seen pics of the VQ arms and hubs next to VR/S ones but can't remember where.

I had considered swapping the VS hubs to VT style but want to retain the ability to fit 15" wheels on the back so I can run some drag radials.

With the right offset rims you can get a big rim in there. The guy that owns the Just Commodores forum made some custom 17" x 10" rims running a 285 tyre on his VR HSV Senator. He also extensively strengthened the rear subframe.

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Re: VT1 - How Much Rear Camber

Postby oldn64 » Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:42 am

immortality wrote:With the right offset rims you can get a big rim in there. The guy that owns the Just Commodores forum made some custom 17" x 10" rims running a 285 tyre on his VR HSV Senator. He also extensively strengthened the rear subframe.


For completeness... http://forums.justcommodores.com.au/vr-vs/215828-vr-senator-lsx454.html Yum.

The cradle strengthening is not due to the arms or even the rims, more to do with the design flaw and that a 304 cracks these.

Remember that the race cars of this era were running 17x10 and in some cases 17x11's within the factory guards. I know that Larry Perkins ran a 17x10 on the back of his VL that was rolled at simmons plains before he went to the VP (actually it was this roll that forced him to the VP). I still to this day do not see how he managed to do it and he will not devolve the information either. :( I have spent many hours under the back of my VL trying to work out how to do it without rubbing and I just cannot get it there. A IRS would make things soooo much easier. Mind you I prefer the feel of the live axle.

cheers
oldn64

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Re: VT1 - How Much Rear Camber

Postby psyolent » Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:04 pm

yeah i've seen those cradles crack up there. won't be a problem with the VT V6. the torque will be cracking them i suspect.

that VR is a almost fucking VSH spec.
Cheers,
Greg aka Sir Burnie Tanington

VX1 Berlina V6, VX2 Berlina V6, VT1 Berlina V6 (Track), VN1 S V6, Hilux RN105 GMV8, Ford XP 170.

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