Is this possible

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Is this possible

Postby Tre-Cool » Mon Feb 17, 2020 1:15 am

Had a mate send someone to me with a wingless sprint car to run up on the dyno, that runs a vn-vp v6 motor in it to get a baseline, but he wants me to tune it eventually to see if we can pick up any more power. (they run on methanol)

so we got to discussing about what's allowed / not allowed in their class. i've done some reading tonight and it seems they are mostly restricted on parts, but not on the tuning side except that a stock vn,vp or vr ecu must be used.

11.23 ENGINE MANAGEMENT.
a Standard VN,VP or VR OEM Electronic Control Module must be used,
b Fitted with a standard or after market MEMCAL that must be visually standard.
cMaximum rev limit up to 6000 rpm.
d Sequential Fuel Injection not permitted.
e  Memcals. “programmable on the fly” MEMCALs , MEMCALs that can be reprogrammed by
the driver whilst racing or multiple rev limit MEMCALs are not allowed and must not be used.


I asked about the rev limit & how they actually check it, since you need to run a modified memcal to turn off vats?, injectors for methanol etc & they said that someone comes along and plugs a device into the ecu where the engine harness goes in & they check it.

which leads me to the question of is that even possible? I'm thinking it's all smoke and mirrors & others in the field could be "cheating".

going fwd, i'll probably setup an ecu with 12p to tune in real time & some eproms to put final tuning result back in. though i dont see how the nvram board can be seen as programmable on the fly.

Opinions?

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Re: Is this possible

Postby delcowizzid » Mon Feb 17, 2020 7:10 am

They are going to be reading memcals of the people who are faster than the rest of the field there's been a lot of cheating of the rpm limit even people earthing the injectors so they stay on when the limiter hits just to get a bit more rpm down the straights
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Re: Is this possible

Postby antus » Mon Feb 17, 2020 12:24 pm

A lot of people are running 12p out there already, maybe they try and read it with ose flash tool which would read most the aftermarket bins they would expect to find over the aldl. Maybe they have their own bench loom and plug the pcm straight in to it.
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Re: Is this possible

Postby Tre-Cool » Mon Feb 17, 2020 8:04 pm

antus wrote:A lot of people are running 12p out there already, maybe they try and read it with ose flash tool which would read most the aftermarket bins they would expect to find over the aldl. Maybe they have their own bench loom and plug the pcm straight in to it.


I opened one of the ecu cases and someone had obviously changed the eprom out on this car.

but i didnt think the oseflash tool could read out the old ecu's it was more for the flash vx-vy computers?

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Re: Is this possible

Postby pman92 » Mon Feb 17, 2020 9:11 pm

Maybe they have something made up that just simulates a crank reference signal and they check it's doesnt have spark and injector pulse over 6000rpm
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Re: Is this possible

Postby j_ds_au » Mon Feb 17, 2020 10:00 pm

Tre-Cool wrote:i didnt think the oseflash tool could read out the old ecu's it was more for the flash vx-vy computers?

It can read the first 64K (except that the last byte is garbage).

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Re: Is this possible

Postby Tre-Cool » Mon Feb 17, 2020 10:07 pm

pman92 wrote:Maybe they have something made up that just simulates a crank reference signal and they check it's doesnt have spark and injector pulse over 6000rpm


that's what i would have thought, but apparently they are plugging a laptop in. guy says they are done within a few minutes.

id have thought if they went to the extreme of dictating hardware, they should supply the ecu for the class, then to prevent cheaters. they swap them out randomly between cars.

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Re: Is this possible

Postby Holden202T » Tue Feb 18, 2020 4:07 pm

yep thats exactly what they do, they plug a test module into the DFI plug, then plug one injector into it, turn a knob which increases the rpm display up to the point of the rev limit.

so from that i am assuming, some sort of reference pulse generator, which then in turn fires the injector and from that they can gauge it.

i have in the past done a dyno tune for one of these, pretty much you can do whatever you want with the tune as long as you dont go over the 6000rpm limit.

i reckon there will also soon be a test to see if there is a map switch in them too which could negate the rev limiter!

mind you i dont understand why they want to rev them over 6000rpm anyways, they are limited to a stock camshaft! and i know from experience these really drop off in power over 5200rpm, so it would be better to just gear the car to that i would have though, especially seeing how they have no restriction on rear end gearing!

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Re: Is this possible

Postby vlad01 » Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:18 pm

peak power with extractors is actually 4700rpm, but they do still accelerate well right to 5600 stock limit, any more though is kinda pointless as you are better off changing to the next gear well before 6k.
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Re: Is this possible

Postby Tre-Cool » Thu Feb 20, 2020 1:06 am

vlad01 wrote:peak power with extractors is actually 4700rpm, but they do still accelerate well right to 5600 stock limit, any more though is kinda pointless as you are better off changing to the next gear well before 6k.


no gears in these as they are direct drive.

had no tacho feed into the dyno nor in the cab, but power def fell over hard along with fueling as the rpm got up.

i told him he'd be better off limiting rpm and sort out the gearing to keep in the power/torque band of the motor.

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