TunerPro RT & Moates Quarter horse demo?

[ATPCR]

For over a year and a half now, I've searched for TunerPro RT demo videos. I haven't come across anything that someone is using exactly the same hardware and software that I have. I have found overseas videos not in english and if the automobile is a Ford, it is nowhere near what I'm working on.
I have a fairly new version of TunerPro RT. It is a year and a half old so it may be time to update it. I also have a new Moates Quarter horse.
I have a new Dell laptop and all of the necessary software to make everything work.
On my Ford 5.0 project, I'm close to being able to be able to do a Real Time test. First, I would like to see someone with exactly the same hardware and software that I have and preferably a 5.0 make a video of them setting up everything having the bin file, xdf file and adx? file. I think that I'm calling all of the files by their correct names. I have gotten as far as installing the 3 files and actually was able to make the dashboard feature in TunerPro show up.
Anyone American, Australian or a New Zealander that has an ~ 1998 to 2002 Ford 5.0 and all the same set-up as I do, make a video of a running real time test and a playback. Also pointing out which buttons to click on in TunerPro RT. People from other countries that speak english and have TunerPro RT, Moates Quearter horse and a Ford 5.0 would be ok too. I know I sound very specific, however if you were to search the internet as much as I have, you would see what all that I've found that doesn't apply directly.
I reckon that one of you guys can help me. Thanks in advance, and I do realize that this site is more of a pcm hacking site and not as much a tuning site. Thanks again, Greg in north Alabama US.

[ATPCR]

Over the weekend I'll check in again. Thanks.

[antus]

Just to set expectations there are not a lot of people with that hardware and knowledge here, and that is quite an ask of the time from someone who is likely time poor. It is possible you will find some help like that but I would not count on it, especially by the weekend. Good luck.

In my opinion you would be better off giving it a go and asking specific questions. You are more likely to get specific answers that someone can type in a minute after reading about the part you are stuck on. Maybe watch some of the existing starter guides to get an idea of approximately what you need to do, then apply it to you your quaterhorse, and ask questons from there. I havn't watched this video but from a quick skim it seems to show the general process and some emulation hardware even if it is not the hardware you have. It should give you an idea of the approximate process then you think about what would be the same or different for yours

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLRnRNapRN4

I just now did a bit of googling for you and I can only find a couple of posts from people having trouble over 10 years ago. It would seem there is not a large userbase around that hardware in the first place, and probably less now. I found mentions of files you need on the old moates site, but that has closed down. I found a readme on archive.org so I will add a copy here for anyone else looking for that. I think the first thing you need to find documentation for is how to install the hardware and set it up. Then tunerpro. Then you can start playing around with it like in the above youtube video.

https://web.archive.org/web/20110103044 ... tprt_ford/

readme.txt:

Using the Quarterhorse with TunerProRT5, Ford strategies 2004 and older are supported for emulation, datalogging, and EEC reading. The Jaybird and F3 provide chip burning ability.

Costs are as follows:

$249: Quarterhorse Realtime Emulator and Datalogger
$ 75: Jaybird USB Programmer
$ 60: F3 Chip Module
$ 39: TunerPro RT5
$ 0: Strategy Definition and Binary Files

Several vehicle types are supported, including GUFB/A9L and CBAZA/T4M0 as of 2010-08-04.

Instructions for startup:

1) Install Quarterhorse into EEC after cleaning J3 port connector and clearancing components.

2) Install USB drivers and configure virtual COM port settings to COM5 and Latency 1 mS.

3) Download and install TunerProRT5 Beta 6644 or later. Download all necessary BIN, XDF, and ADX files for your application (GUFB with A9L for example). Establish USB/VCP communication with TunerPro and the Quarterhorse. You should see "Hardware: Quarterhorse v1.6.Q" at the bottom of the screen.

4) Select "View/Toolbars/Emulation Bank". With the subsequent pulldown, make sure it is set to "Bank 1".

5) Select "Tools/Preferences". Under the "Data Acq./Emulation" tab, choose the "Use Plug-in" pulldown option for "Data Acquisition & Logging / Interface Type". Also, "Configure Plug-in Component" and then select "Shared with Emulator". Click OK.

6) Click "XDF/Select XDF". Choose your editor definition XDF file (GUFB_56k.xdf for instance).

7) Click "Acquisition/Load Definition File". Choose your datalogging definition ADX file (GUFB_56k.adx for instance).

8) Select "File/Open Bin". Load your 56k binary file (A9L_56k.BIN for instance).

9) Select "Tools/Emulation/Upload Current Bin to Emulator". If you like, you can also "Verify Emu Ram Against Current Bin" to verify that the QH is fully loaded with the desired binary file.

10) Select "Acquisition/Show Data Lists". You can also show gauges and monitors. These can be configured through the "Edit Definition" option. By selecting "View/Floating Utility Tabs", the data monitoring tabs can be relocated away from the main editor window.

11) Select "Acquisition/Start/Stop Data Scan" and turn key on. Start vehicle and you should see data! Select the red "Record" button to save the datalog to your PC in a log file (XDL). You'll be prompted for the filename when the logging session is stopped.

12) To make changes to the calibration, select "Tools/Emulation/Enable Emulation". Select a parameter to edit, change it, and hit "Update" to have immediate effect.

13) To save the modified file without losing your original file, select "File/Save Bin As" and specify a new name.

14) If you need to read the stock EEC file with the QH, you will need to have it installed and key-on powered in the vehicle or bench harness. Select "Tools/Moates Prom I/O" and then select "J3 Ford EEC-IV Reader" or EEC-V depending on year/model. You will need to save the resultant buffer content to a file as either 56k or 256k.

Chip burning note: If working with the Jaybird and F3 module, you will need to understand binary offsets and structure. You'll be able to find the chip burning options under "Tools/Moates Prom I/O".


A video version of these instructions is also available with screenshots and further examples.

Relevant links:

Products to purchase:
Quarterhorse
Jaybird
F3 Module
TunerPro
Strategy Definition and Binary Files

Tutorial:
PDF version of quick-start instructions with screenshots
Video quick-start guide
Basic Ford EEC-IV tuning guide

Those links though, are not links. The readme shows that this is really just a logger and you need something else for tuneing. If you cant find the information you need, and depending on your car, you might be better off going with something else more mainstream.

I did look in my archive of stuff Ive been collecting for 15 years, and I did find "QHorse_Install_Spanned" zip file from moates. It has only images in it, I'll post them here. That might help you get it connected. I think you'll still need more definitions and information, though.

A bit more of a google and I find most discussion about it is at eectuning.org, such as here: https://eectuning.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=13989
or this one https://www.moddedmustangs.com/threads/ ... se.199485/
But most the links are to the old moates site which is down.
https://eectuning.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=20834
http://www.eecanalyzer.net/downloads

You should probably also try asking on those sites. Maybe someone with the hardware had archived all the stuff you need and put it somewhere to share.

[antus]

Ooh I think this is a mirror of the original getting started guide: https://moates1.rssing.com/chan-9780412/all_p10.html

[ATPCR]

@antus. Thanks for your reply. It is a logging demonstration that I'm looking for.
I realize that this is a unique ask between this being near antique now for the Ford products, the scarcity of individuals working with the EEC-V compared to say 20 to 25 year old GM products etc.
Sad that the Moates company made an abrupt exit including NOT leaving behind an "archival" site.
Thanks again for taking the time to reply. Most of what has happened to me on various sites over the past year and a half, seems to have fallen on deaf ears, but it is really a matter of, it is a scarce ask to begin with and once someone gets their unique situation worked out, then they tend to not frequent sites that may have helped them in the past.
Also, I know that this Moates QH that I purchased was originally intended for the American "Fox body" era, EEC-IV, without any clue that it would function and be usable on various Ford EEC-V vehicles 1998 to 2004 in most cases.
Forgive me if I came across impatient but I am confident that someone will pop up with a Ford EEC-V, using a Moates Quarter horse with the TunerPro RT software. It wouldn't have to be a V-8 just something EEC-V. Maybe even an American 2003 Marauder.
Again, I'm not looking at the how to tune aspect, just someone doing a demo of Real Time logging.

[ATPCR]

antus, Those are pictures that I've not seen from Moates before and this document https://moates1.rssing.com/chan-9780412/all_p10.html
I have not seen either. I will study all of this, this evening after work. It's a little before 4 a.m. here and a long, hot workday ahead.
I really appreciate you taking the time to look online and in your personal "archives" too! Greg in north Alabama.
Edited, added: Those pictures appear to be the Moates Quarter horse being installed in an EEC-IV pcm, Fox body era version of that class of pcm. I've read accounts of having to gently fold components over for the Moates QH to fit. Fortunately. mainly because of advancements in technology, the Moates device fit the EEC-V pcms without any tweaking. I'm making just an observational comment.
Also, when I get this worked out, I will return and share my experience so that if anyone else in the future is searching, asking, it will help them too.

Moates Quarter horse installed in a 1999 Ford EEC-V pcm.

[DWS]

Don't forget the wayback machine exists for a reason =).

https://web.archive.org/web/20200125172 ... oates.net/

[ATPCR]

Hello everyone, local and abroad. I was just now searching the Internet for someone using TunerPro RT that was doing a Real Time demo, particularly dialing in say fuel on the fly, and came across my thread from last June.
Several months before that, because Moates.net shut down in very late 2022, I resorted to purchasing a Moates QuarterHorse with BE from Core Tuning. I was wanting just the QuarterHorse and I'm not even sure what the BE part of this is or how to use it. That is a question for EECtuning.org. I'm in the EFIdynotuning "camp" of all of this, so TunerPro RT is my tuning software.
There is not really a question here, but more of an update.
Fast forward to now. Moates is back! Maybe they realized that neither is the EEC-IV Fox body tuning efforts are not dead and the fact that there is a new group of interested people that are using EEC-V with Ford 5.0s (and other Ford V-8 engines) converting them to coil-near-plug using 2020 "Godzilla" coils. This also involves using pcms from other Ford V-8 engines that are coil-on-plug and have 8 coil drivers internally that make this even possible.
(The Gen 2 5.0 Explorer/Mountaineer pcms only have 4 coil drivers for the wasted spark type of ignition systems.)
This past late January, early February, I was able to get TunerPro RT configured properly and to function. The Real Time readout via the J-3 port
appears to be almost instantaneous.
I'll say again that I know that this is primarily a pcm hacking site and not so much a tuning site however a lot of guys hacking are tuning too.
Cory (DWS) who has been helping me with an issue has built up quite a bit of information as it has to do with EEC-V pcms that have J-3 ports.
This all makes me wonder...
Can newer than EEC-V pcms be physically hacked and have a J-3 port installed, "retrofitted"? Only one pcm per class would have to have this done to it to Real Time tune, then save and convert the bin file and write it back to a stock pcm through the OBDII port with no J-3 port?
https://www.moates.net/

[DWS]

Hello everyone, local and abroad. I was just now searching the Internet for someone using TunerPro RT that was doing a Real Time demo, particularly dialing in say fuel on the fly, and came across my thread from last June.
Several months before that, because Moates.net shut down in very late 2022, I resorted to purchasing a Moates QuarterHorse with BE from Core Tuning. I was wanting just the QuarterHorse and I'm not even sure what the BE part of this is or how to use it. That is a question for EECtuning.org. I'm in the EFIdynotuning "camp" of all of this, so TunerPro RT is my tuning software.
There is not really a question here, but more of an update.
Fast forward to now. Moates is back! Maybe they realized that neither is the EEC-IV Fox body tuning efforts are not dead and the fact that there is a new group of interested people that are using EEC-V with Ford 5.0s (and other Ford V-8 engines) converting them to coil-near-plug using 2020 "Godzilla" coils. This also involves using pcms from other Ford V-8 engines that are coil-on-plug and have 8 coil drivers internally that make this even possible.
(The Gen 2 5.0 Explorer/Mountaineer pcms only have 4 coil drivers for the wasted spark type of ignition systems.)
This past late January, early February, I was able to get TunerPro RT configured properly and to function. The Real Time readout via the J-3 port
appears to be almost instantaneous.
I'll say again that I know that this is primarily a pcm hacking site and not so much a tuning site however a lot of guys hacking are tuning too.
Cory (DWS) who has been helping me with an issue has built up quite a bit of information as it has to do with EEC-V pcms that have J-3 ports.
This all makes me wonder...
Can newer than EEC-V pcms be physically hacked and have a J-3 port installed, "retrofitted"? Only one pcm per class would have to have this done to it to Real Time tune, then save and convert the bin file and write it back to a stock pcm through the OBDII port with no J-3 port?
https://www.moates.net/

Sort of, not quite the same but you could solder to the BDM/JTAG wires on the processor and expose them to an external port. This would give direct control over the processor to freeze it, change live ram memory values including the current software line counter, and unfreeze it or peek/pook addresses. This would have to be coupled with custom code, but could be possible.

An easier and less intrusive method would probably be to find an output of the computer that isn't needed on most tuned vehicles (say ac control, or evap system, etc) and reuse those pins for data communication to read/write changes live. Would of course take custom code still, but should be possible. The communication speed might be quite slow like 1000 baud rate (1 bit per ms, so say a 2 byte value would take roughly 16ms to communicate). This type of setup would require two wires most likely, effectively a TX and RX for send and receive.

OBD2 is a communication standard that could be used, but it's fairly slow. It probably is possible to create new custom PID's that aren't within the standard so you can read the different values. On the wiring side there would probably need a custom mode or something programmed for receiving values. I've only very lightly touched into the OBD2 communication protocols, mostly KLINE for Toyota computers (another fun project on them lol).

Can talk about it in theory all day, but that doesn't make it happen sadly. Would defo be a fairly large project to pull off as a single person, but with enough time and dedication just about anything is possible.

Ironically, I'm working on something fairly indirect to that type of logic, but on demo derby computers there's a lot of code that isn't needed so I'm in the process of marking what functions can be deleted and that can free up some ram space if needed later. Ultimately I want to move parts of the calibration into ram and have a really simple tune adjustment knob which the code for that would simply update the ram values and more or less be instantly live. There's just no feedback with the design in my mind since it's more or less just more rich or more lean type of adjustments as a sort of multi-tune solution for these cars (lots with issues). Of course the work I'm doing is on the EEC-V era of the computers, but similar logic should work on the newer ones too.

I'm sure plenty of this is too technical talk, but it's all theorycrafting anyway so those that know would be the ones getting idea's from the post lol. I'm a bit of an out of the box thinker sometimes, so maybe one of the idea's will help spark an idea for someone else to try on those computers?

I'm still having my fun documenting EEC-V hardware id's + features and identifying the features in code when possible, slow progress on that project though (too many projects lol).

[ATPCR]

I've wondered about the slimming or trimming back on all of the lines of code and stuff that wouldn't necessarily be need in a 2003 Crown Vic demo derby car.
I meant to put this TunerPro RT dashboard in action still shot in my most recent post.