The Val

vn5000 · Post by **vn5000** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 3:48 pm

Also ,just a thought,maybe you may have been getting false triggering with the inductive pickup mounted on the balancer,because it runs so close to the balancer and would pick up very small irregularities on the surface of the balancer at higher speeds.

Post by **delcowizzid** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 11:19 pm

big round balancer will have a higher surface speed out at the sensor slot location than a small dizzy wheel youll have to make the slots mimmick a dizzy by making them wider ide say so it gets a similar on off time to what it does in the dizzy slots will be turning on and off faster than the poor old 40 year old tech module can switch LOL

Post by **VL400** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 11:45 pm

Will post up some pics tomorrow of some testing i did today passing a file by the sensor (to simulate a massive tooth/slot). You end up with a positive transition, a wavy line at about 0V and then the negative transition. Each pos/neg spike is the edge if the tooth while the wavy line is the flat of the file going past. Apparently the correct way to get a nice sharp transition is to have the slot/tooth the same width as the sensor tip (not the whole sensor but its detector part, which ours is 4mm so the slots are also 4mm).

I think VN5000 might be on to something as I bench tested a home made slotted trigger wheel thats not perfectly round. You can see all the imperfections in the wheel showing up in the reluctor waveform. We worked hard to get the sensor close to the balancer, maybe it needs to be moved away slightly for a clean trigger.

Also tested a V shaped slot instead of a nice sharp transition, you get a similar waveform but its has some extra little transitions on each edge.

VNracer34G · Post by **VNracer34G** » Sun Mar 27, 2011 7:00 am

Is it possible that the the ballancer doing its job is throwing things off? Your slots are on the outer hub, would it be better with a disc attached to the centre hub which is solid mounted to the crank?

Post by **VL400** » Sun Mar 27, 2011 8:48 am

Thats where we will prob be heading (also have an MSD non magnetic pickup so chasing up a wheel). Will be continuing to have a play around with it Monday and Tuesday. But the issue at the moment is more that even using the clean dizzy reluctor signal the reference signal from the ignition module looks shithouse.

Oh and even with the grounding changes the misfire is still present, ran it friday night. Its a consistant misfire though, ran 3 passes - 10.24, 10.24, 10.28.

vn5000 · Post by **vn5000** » Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:07 am

Maybe you could try using a hall effect sensor such as vn crank angle sensor and make a chopper disk to suit bolted to to the crank,and use a vn v8 module.

Post by **VL400** » Sun Mar 27, 2011 1:58 pm

We do actually have a Bosch commo dizzy that's been turned down to suit the Chrysler, so getting a v8 module to work is not too hard, just trying to avoid the stupid costs of the v8 module and loom at this stage. But if everything fails it will prob find its way in.

Post by **VL400** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 8:03 pm

Interesting day of testing today. Had the reluctor test setup pictured above triggering the car - with a 12 tooth wheel we could easily test to 7kRPM. The spark plug firing into thin air sounded like a TIG! Injectors are noisy buggers too. Everything I scoped looked really good ...

: ReluctorinandRefout.jpg (30.62 KiB) Viewed 5418 times

: ReluctorinandSparkout.jpg (27.54 KiB) Viewed 5418 times

: Refsignalandsparkout.jpg (32.87 KiB) Viewed 5418 times

: Spark.jpg (29.1 KiB) Viewed 5418 times

Was at a bit of a loss but had suspected the CDI was inducing some interference in the reluctor signal inside the dizzy. So put the scope on the dizzy reluctor and span up the trigger simulator wheel. It was a full setup as we connected up the dizzy high voltage leads again (spark was being sent to one cyl as the engine was not turning), the dizzy reluctor was not used and with an engine thats not turning should just see a flat line. This is what we got...

: InducedvoltageofdizzyreluctorfromMSDSpark.jpg (40.37 KiB) Viewed 5418 times

So looks like the reluctor pickup is getting some nasty voltages on it and is probably false triggering from them.

Also tested the theory of reluctor slot size vs ref out...

: SlotsizevsRefoutwidth.jpg (53.52 KiB) Viewed 5418 times

Lawso · Post by **Lawso** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 8:41 pm

Just a thought,

Could it be trigger edge related? The MSD is a rising edge module where the camira ( or delco for the matter..) is falling edge.

The MSD module controls dwell (smart igniter) where as the ECU controls dwell (dumb igniter) in the delco system.
I don't believe that the delco has the ability to switch ignition output edges like the aftermarket systems do?

I have had no luck running a 6AL on a delco system. ICE and M&W have CDI modules that will work with the delco (falling edge triggered)

Having the reluctor output's polarity wrong can also cause issues.

As a trial, take the delco out of the equation. Connect the dissy straight to the MSD. See if it cleans up?

vn5000 · Post by **vn5000** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 9:38 pm

The multi spark looks like it is producing multiple sparks for about 4ms.When a v8 is spinning 6000rpm it is producing 400 sparks per sec,which means it has 2.5 ms to turn coil on and off. if the msd is sparking for 4ms after each trigger then it would be on constantly at high speed(just a theory as i havent had any experience with msd).Also to me the freqency and wavelength dont seem to match on your scope.

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