I laugh at all these professionally lowered cut spring jobs. I’ve learnt a bit getting into the 4wds. More people will spend $ on suspension in 4wds then on a holden/ford. Just simple things like modifying bump stops ect. When was the last time you heard someone with an holden or ford talk about bump stops? Bump stops are most holden and ford owners shocks . No one talks about adjust arms on the older solids or the extra adjustment on the vy-vz rear. Ever pushed a vt then a vy and seen how much easier it is? Everything needs to be matched and if you take it much past factory it needs to be thought through. Maybe I’m just getting old, but I like factory spring rates and heights.
Yes, early IRS on Commodores is terrible when lowered. VX series 2 was the first to get the extra toe arms...but it ruins the sway bar link arms how they bend around the toe arm.
I've seriously considered modifying the Senator rear with the extra toe arms.
The factory springs have always been progressive rate, some aftermarket are fixed rate like lovel springs. King springs are good with the rate, but I found them to be way off with the heights as mentioned, too high up front and too low at the rear. So to get a level right, you need to get raised for the rear and lowered for the front, you may have to go super low up front to get the right level of the factory car which is slightly lower at the front, or more actuate, slightly higher at the rear to compensate for fuel and passengers. But their raised rear is the same as factory rear, so actually you need the super lows up from to get the same level and height as factory I reckon. Gas shocks can change it a little too, usually 5-10mm higher, more so at the front. So it's hard to get it spot on with aftermarket springs. Mine were chewed up so I just bought replacement kings, but I regret that. Should have gone good used genuine or lowered straight up, then at least I would only need to play with the rear springs which is wayyyy easier than the front.
Besides Biltstein shocks, what others are as good? I reckon the Pedders ones handle and ride great but I found their seals to leak on ever car I ever seen them on. Wasn't impressed with Koni on the VWs I had, that was Koni red. Monroe was factory equipment, pretty crap, Boge was ok but a little harsh, ultima is garbage, not sure why all the commodore people swear by them, probably because they are cheap, gabriel also terrible.
Bilstein was hands down amazing, but I do worry about the long term aspects of the internal bump stop. If they last like 10-15 years I wouldn't care, but if the bump stops get eaten by the oil in a few years I would be pissed. The stock external bump stops for most of my cars have lasted a few decades with ease and are often reused a few times and I have a hard time imagining that ones in oil which is made from the same foam as the external ones would be able to last without perishing.
The Subaru I'm hooning around ATM has factory fitted Bilsteins and they seem fine after many many years of motoring.
In our VX Calais we have Dobi sport springs Low all round and sits level, maybe a touch higher in the rear. I had KYB shocks but I wasn't happy with them, now I'm running Munroe GT sport shortened shocks and it's much better.
A lot of people say KYB are good, so many of the VN-VP on the fb groups in the last year or two started using them, and the strut tops all failed in about 100-500km of use. They turned to goo. The shocks I always knew were crap from my VW days, all the VW guys swear by them, but they were worse than the 40 year old at the time factory Boge units.
Good to know Bilstein have had no issues long term for you. I only ever saw one post as mentioned where the bump stops perished but the OP never said how old they were and Bilstein looking exactly the same for the last 3+ decades at least that I am aware of won't tell you much.
I’ve had issues with kings sending me the wrong springs. I think it might be because every man and his dog orders the same ones, so they probably don’t even bother checking the picking slip lol. Personally not a fan of king springs to be honest, neither pedders. Stock springs with either Monroe gas shocks or bilstiens. Don’t forget that factory spring came out in many different spring rates ect. Fe1, fe2 and then even differences from sedan to coupe to Ute and wagon and can’t forget the stato’s ect. Plus they changed sway bars a lot especially in the early days. Step up from there I’d go a medium to higher end coil over setup. Fully adjustable coil overs are awesome and honestly don’t have a bad thing to say about them. Obviously they need to be setup properly though. But the adjustment in them means you can swap and change settings without having to go out and completely buy everything new every time. Same with bushes. Everyone gets nolathane but I’ve personally seen them fall apart, crack and warp ect. But nolathane used to say that there bushes don’t do that lol. Plus there too stiff in my opinion. The Polly tech or what ever there called, the ones with the kangaroo on them are the ones I like. There in between and hood up much better too.
I just measured my VR with FE2 suspension and the front bar is 26mm. I had a student some years back and he worked for a suspension specialist (I think the boss was Greg Nolan Nolothane) and they ran many race cars with no front sway bar and did it all with spring rates. Another member of out club has a Proton (yea don't bag it) and they found a big increase in handling by removing the front bar and it allowed better tyre and road contact when on the limit. Just my 2 bobs worth.
Yeah suspension is a touchy subject. As application and personal preference all comes into play. I remember with the vl turbos at drags you’d remove front sway bar and fit std non fe2 sus in the rear and make sure your rear arms are sitting level at ride height. Or with fwds you want the opposite, a stuff rear to stop weight transfer. Problem is when you try to make an all rounder setup there’s always going to be a compromise. Same with many things in life I suppose. You can either be really good at one thing or sorta ok with many. I guess suspension setups are just as technical as tuning an engine.
That's pretty much the consensus I have found too, light or no bar at the front and upgrade the rear to a stiffer one really allows rwd front engine cars to hook corners and improve times on the track. Spring rates, shocks, heights etc... then geometry, it all gets super complex fast.
Each model with FE2 I found also varies, VR is wider and heavier, so I never expected it to be the same as VP. My VR as mentioned handles a lot different to my VPs, and in my opinion worse, but it potentially could be better than the VP, but not with the same combo of parts and settings it's at now. Even the tyres and wheels could be a big factor, VR has 235s on 17, where the VPs have 205 to 215 on 15 and 16 wheels, so the meatier tyres of the VP likely works better with this suspension design and geometry and spring/damper rates. Where the thin and wide tyre doesn't so much on the VR. Then the unsprung weight between the two can't be ignored.
. No one talks about adjust arms on the older solids or the extra adjustment on the vy-vz rear. Ever pushed a vt then a vy and seen how much easier it is? Everything needs to be matched and if you take it much past factory it needs to be thought through. Maybe I’m just getting old, but I like factory spring rates and heights.