large ID concentric slave, do they even exist? - General thread for clutch slaves.

[vlad01]

So, hit a dead end with the slave sizing. So my other options is to cut and weld the input shafts together using aT5 donor shaft. But that depends if the T5 one will fit through the Toyota font seal or not. The last option is to have a custom flywheel with the face extended some 70+ mm back and use a Toyota disk, who knows. I feel like taking the engine out and burning the damn car!

[VK_3800]

I'm not familiar with the setup so just spitballing here, I assume it's something like this with an extension/adapter to the original input shaft?
https://www.marks4wd.com/mfk129.html

Where does the bearing need to mount, on the front of the shiny tube or using some sort of spider legs back to the bell housing? Is there a possibility of using a very short/squat hydraulic bearing setup that will fit longitudinally in the smaller diameter section of the input shaft? If so you may be able to make a simple adapter to mount it that steps down from the bigger diameter, rather than the hydraulic assembly needing a larger inner diameter?

Otherwise it may be tempting to make up a custom slave before attempting weird things with the flywheel. Must be able to use common brake piston seals.

[vlad01]

That's basically the same bs conversion, Mark's 4x4 one. They simply don't work as intended.

The bearing mounts to a big steel tube that slides in and out of a webbing cast into the bellhousing/adapter housing. It always jams, gets dust and crap in it, jams again and the bearing flops around. I had the whole thing remade to much tighter tolerances, the original one was like 1.5mm tolerance and flopped around. I got it to somewhere less than 0.15mm without jamming up, but the throw of the Toyota fork and down sized slave was never enough to fully release the bearing, even the slave was on the verge of popping the piston out of the cylinder and the clutch only disengaged the last 1mm of pedal travel when cold, once the car warmed up, no disengagement.

The whole thing has been a nightmare, Toyota 4x4 number 4 and all had engine problems, one blew up. So get one with a good engine (Buick, which has been rock solid btw) and the car and conversion is a nightmare.

Not my cars, but my nephew's. Somehow I end up always fixing someone else's pos

It's like the countless Ford trauma when I was in my 20s. Everyone had a heap of junk E series or some other even worse Ford and I was the one replacing head gaskets, door handles, rust repairs, welding up and milling heads that got eaten out by bad factory coolant. Don't get me started on the alternator belts and electrical gremlins on those heaps lol Front rotors and bearings on B series! ffs.

My older brother just bought a broken diesel territory despite me trying to talk him out of it, I refuse to touch it!

Just having a rant

[hjtrbo]

Put a barra in it and be done with it.

[Charlescrown]

Cutting and welding another input shaft is OK as long as the welder does a good job. It will never be subjected to more torque than the engine can put out.

[vlad01]

Looking at seeing if Dellow do a conversion kit, they do one for the Hilux with the same gearbox and as far as I can see, their kit doesn't extent the shaft, rather a whole new bell housing and clutch to suit the Toyota box and fork setup.

The current setup, the engine is only about 50mm from the radiator, that's even with the fan mounted on the front.

Barra jokes aside, if you went barra, the engine would be hanging out of the bullbar by a long way

If the Dellow route works, the sump would probably need modding as the engine will move back at least 70mm I would imagine.

[hjtrbo]

You're missing out lol

https://www.facebook.com/reel/407899255522852

[vlad01]

So I found this the other day, these options from Tilton opens up options and solve many tricky problems like originally in this thread.

https://tiltonracing.com/product-catego ... -bearings/

But also allows solutions to properly engineer slave cylinder solutions for cars like ours where the bell housing is very deep.

My fav is the bulkhead and bellhousing mounting styles. For the T5 V6, I came with the idea of a 25mm alloy plate mounted inside via the trans to bell housing bolts in the reverse direction, then a plate as mounting pad with the right thickness in the center for the slave to bolt to (about 32mm for a typical performance clutch using the thinnest slave). That would allow the height to be made to suit different clutch kit by changing out the mounting pad to one with the right thickness to suit. And of course there are many height options available for each of the slaves too.

This is far simpler than trying to have a custom tall front bearing retainer made for a more common concentric slaves out there like the Saab style and the 2nd thing that is of great benefit is the strain of depressing the clutch is transmitted through the bellhousing and not the transmission case first, this prevents the preload of the main and input shaft changing under clutch throw out loads, and 3rd benefit is the possibility of trans removal and installation without the need to remove the whole lot with the bellhousing. I almost always install my box after the bellhousing, so I can set the clutch up and this also reduces the risk of bending the disk or deforming the spigot bush from installation misalignment or dropping the trans during insertion.

Having a slave cylinder like one in these listings will allow all of that to happen, plus one should be able to check the bearing to diaphragm clearance in situ.

The other thing that would make install safer is that the hole through the plate and bearing as well as the bolt threads poking out the back acting like studs for the box to mount to, all force the trans to self guide during install making it safer from damaging the spigot and disk.


Wish I found these for the 4Runner, I am sure some of these are low enough to work, but the only issue is their seals probably wouldn't be robust for mud and dirty water from off road muddying, but perfect for the road car!


EDIT: I changed the title of the thread to include general clutch slave and hydraulic info. PS. no, larger ID slaves do not exist, but we went with a Dellow conversion bellhousing and kit which solved these issues by ridding the entire Marks 4x4 junk, replaces with a normal belhousing and just a custom Holden T5 disk with a yota hub, so far, engine is not in yet as we have been waiting for fab work on the engine mounts and various bits to move to the next step which is the sump, the wait for the fab work has been since Feb I think so far.