Help needed! VP/VN motor running on 16176424 ECM

[Toyo Truck]

Hi guys,

OK I have been searching, reading and learning all weekend. There is some AWESOME stuff on this forum... good work!!
I have had a few thoughts regarding all this that I forgot to ask.. They are as follows...

1) I am on the hunt for a 1227808 ECU (VP or VN) and a VP or VN auto wiring loom right?
(there is no difference AFAIK between VP/VN ECUs (808's) and no difference between auto/manual wiring looms??)
Is it the engine harness only I need? Or what?
Prooving a lil difficult, if you know anyone with a spare working 808 or you can sell me one with the USB interface?

2) Just to make it ALOT easier and quicker (I need the truck for work)
With the VR ECU I have now could I program that to run the VN/VP Map and injection, etc, but keep the gbox control?
OR
If I put in a CAM Angle Sensor, will that actually allow the VP/VN motor to run as a VR motor? Is this the only difference?
I think blownvp said earlier the compression ratio was slightly different, what else changed other than comp and cam angle?

3) In the meantime, to 100% pinpoint the issues with the fuel until I get the right ECU and harness...
I ran into a bit of info on the net regarding ALDL communication?
Could I not just hook my current (VR ECU) up to an ALDL connector, download WinALDL and grab the data off the ECU
that way? Or is this a different kettle of fish altogether. I think the main difference is that you cannot program the
chip via ALDL, only read its output? Whereas with your interface, and TunerPro, I can read the data and access the chip?

[Jayme]

since you have an electronic gearbox, going to an 808 is out of the question, so lets focus on getting the VR computer working.

as mentioned earlier, you can put the cam sensor off a VR into your current motor, and itll give you back banked injection and get rid of that error code. is it worth it... not in my opinion, the only thing youll notice is the code will disappear... drivability will not change going from batch to banked injeciton.

you can get an aldl interface and wire it up to your current ECU, download tunerpro and the VR_$11_v1.04-tp5.zip definition from https://pcmhacking.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=29 and get a few logs and post them up, thatll help us tell you exactly why it drives like poo. you can also read the bin (read only) with an aldl interface and vl400's OSE flash tool.

the VR tune is different to the VP in that it has less timing and fuel map is different. you can copy the tables from a VP tune into the VR bin and try that. to write a new tune to your memcal you will need an eprom burner like a willem gq-4x, a few blank 27sf512 eproms and a socket to install into your memcal for swapping chips. then you can use tunerpro and the definitions off this site to edit the tune, even one of us could post you up a bin to try thats more suited to the VP engine.

first things first, get an aldl interface going and get a tunerpro log posted up, as I reckon running a vp engine off a VR tune even in banked mode wouldnt run as badly as you describe, perhaps a different problem is afoot and hte log will help diagnose it.

[Toyo Truck]

Hey Jayme,
are you going to be in sydney anytime soon? i'd let you take it for a drive and you might be able to diagnose it?

basically i have a TH700 lying around somewhere so was thinking of running the 808 and swapping to the VP loom
especially as putting a cam angle sensor might not really do all that much to solve the issue.
so am happy to swap the loom/ecu to 808 and vp loom and th700/4l60 box if that solves the issue.
I'm that desperate I've just accepted the fuel consumption and lack of go and just driven it but i really
need to sort it soon.

so i need to get or make an ALDL connector and use that to log data into TunerPro? whats the "winaldl" program for?
as for the connector I thought I needed the USB/9-pin that is posted on these forums? whats the difference there?

what I've read about ALDL this is used by triggering the ALDL mode by shorting the diag plug with resistor,
causing the engine light to flicker, then hooking up the ALDL connector to the pc and log data on 9 pin only right?

whereas the kits on here connect inside the ecu to USB/9pin and allow direct logging without the shorted pins?
I was also thinking you could burn new info to the ecu via this mode?
or to put new info on the ecu, do i need the eprom burner, eproms and to solder a socket inside the ecu to fit it?
sorry mate i'm confused.

is anyone located near homebush that knows a bit about commodores? ill come by and let you take it for a drive
so we can have two opinions on here as this is the first 3.8l v6 i've ev ever owned so can't really compare.

thanks so much guys. i think there is light at the end of the tunnel!!
i'll get a cable somehow and get it logged so you ecu gurus can work this out once and for all.
if you can work it out we'll go for a drive and I'll let you christen the new tune!
make this big old truck move the way it should will be alot of fun to drive hopefully

[kojab]

is anyone located near homebush that knows a bit about commodores? ill come by and let you take it for a drive
so we can have two opinions on here as this is the first 3.8l v6 i've ev ever owned so can't really compare.

I am in Alfords Point. If you drove over I will do a free log on your truck and give you an evaluation on what I find.

You won't need to wire in a diagnostic port for me to do my log as my own PCM's have the port built in.

Cheers
Dick

[Jayme]

I wont be around anytime soon, kojabs offer sounds good, I recommend it.

to answer your questions, it might be easier for you to swap to an 808 and T700 and a VP tune, but thats assuming the ecu is the cause of the problem, which it might not be, although its definitely not helping running a vp notor off a vr computer.
an 808 from factory can only do 160 baud aldl (which is what winaldl can read) this is done by shorting the aldl connector pin with a resistor. with a mod on this site, you can use 8192 baud aldl on the 808 and use tunepro, a far superior program. 8192 baud aldl is bi direcitonal so doesnt need any resistor shorting to work. a VR pcm, however can do 8192 from factory so all you need is the diagnostic connector from under the VR's dash wired in and an aldl cable like this one https://pcmhacking.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=622

you cant burn a new tune with an aldl cable unless you also buy a special memcal, even then you still need an eprom burner to reflash it if you corrupt it. so to edit the tune, yes you need an eprom burner and some chips like I described earlier.

[Toyo Truck]

Hi Kojab,

Thanks so much for the offer mate,
Please PM me so we can organise a meet up ASAP and I'll drive down to
Alfords Point (I'm at Homebush so about 25 mins or so south yeah?).
any night after work or on the weekend is fine with me.. when is good for you?

So you have everything we need to grab off the logs from the ECU??
That would be so good if you could tell me what the main issue is here. then I can fix it!
Plus you can show me how this is all done so I can learn first hand off someone who is experienced.
Plus you get to drive the mighty V6 hilux!

I can't wait to see what you can find mate. Even if only to have another person drive the truck and feel it
for themselves... perhaps you will be able to better write up the symptoms?

Jayme,
OK understanding a bit better now, so this test with Kojab will give us logs, and data from ECU to diagnose.
IF its the ECU causing the issues, which I hope and think it is,
I'll swap to an 808 and a VN/VP Loom, with a TH700 box.

So winALDL is only 160 BAUD and only good for reading 808 outputs right? Can winALDL read 8192?
as for TP...
TunerPro cannot do 160 BAUD? but does support 8192 BAUD already? And for this you just connect up to the ALDL data wire
anytime and start logging data? sounds alot easier.

Memcal is that the name of the "chip" yeah? so you can't burn a tune with ALDL cable unless you buy a "special" memcal,
what is "special" about it? Is that the only way to reprogram a VR ECU?
What about the kit you can buy off here that goes inside the ECU or these only fit inside 808 ECUs?
can one burn a tune with this kit when fitted to an 808 and not worry about the EPROMS? that seems a bit difficult.
But I'd give it a go... Kojab, you got one of these things mate?

[VL400]

Kojab has all the gear and knowledge to diagnose it properly, check out his profile for a link to his website.

TunerPro can read anything - the adx files define how its setup and what it does, so it could be used for 160 baud but with winALDL already written and working its not really worth doing. I have used TP for all sorts of logging, not just on cars

The special memcals are NVRAM - non-volatile RAM, so you can write to it and the battery backup retains its memory. You can convert your PCM to use an NVRAM and be able to make changes on the fly through TunerPro.
NVRAM - https://pcmhacking.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=167
Comms - https://pcmhacking.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=164

[Toyo Truck]

Hey guys
sorry been away from my pc and i can't access forums from work internet.

OK big progress has been made over the weekend!!!!
went down and spent the morning with kojab, and let me just say what a nice bloke and you will not find a
more knowlegable and thorough tuner I was amazed at the things he knew and what he showed me about my
truck. This guys been playing with delcos forever and is an absolute guru on ecus and seemingly all things
electrical!!

Dick has an awesome home-built software program to diagnose these ecus and it shows absolutely everything
even graphs it out after a run and is 100% more useable for diagnosis than the others Ive now seen.
Im no expert, bute what he found in 10 secs of driving was invaluable and could have been missed on kalmaker.
go over to his website and check out the logs of our drives, but you need to download his demo s/ware to view
the actual log, but check it out its very user friendly and shows all the issues as they are really easily.
He runs Dicks electronics and tunes everything with a delco (and some cars you'd never expect)
http://www.dickselectronics.com

So we plugged in one of dick's ecus with interfaces galore on it, running my memcal, and took the truck for a
run round the block, as soon as i hit the gas, there was signs straight away and lots of red status indicators!!
So I have two major issues that are causing the problem with drivability (thanks so much dick! you rock!!)

1) Car is not fuelling enough (like DRASTICALLY underfuelled)
whenever i put the foot down, instead of the fuel increasing to match, it goes the opposite!!
Dick can comment on just how low but it was like 22 when it should have read 150 or something much higher
he said it was a drastic drop off in fuel delivery. when i gas it to WOT the engine starves of fuel and starts to
ping at higher rpm, then we see the knock sensor retard the motor a full 7 degrees so not good.
sp this is why the engine is showing a 44 code exhaust lean, yet the exhaust and spark plugs are fouled black
and very sooty so clearly showing rich running???
-we checked fuel pressure which is 90 psi odd at the pump which is adequate.
-gets fuel fine at idle its just the more i accellerate the more the fuel drops off.
really not sure why this is but perhaps a dud O2 sensor? i'm going to change it aswell as get a bung put in the
exhaust so that Dick can fully tune my truck and get it running well.

2) My vehicle speed sensor is reading way out to the ecu (like saying its doing 120kmph when im doing 65)
so this would explain the irratic gear changes and that sort of thing. plus kick down speed will be improved
with this sensor recalibrated. Apparently this is fairly easy to redo though.

Needless to say its like a light at the end of the tunnel with this truck and I have full faith in dicks ability to help
me get my truck on the road. I doubt anyone could have spotted what has taken other mechanics months to
misdiagnose time and time again. This bloke could get a cheese sandwich working on a delco ecu

Cheers,
Bart

[festy]

sp this is why the engine is showing a 44 code exhaust lean, yet the exhaust and spark plugs are fouled black
and very sooty so clearly showing rich running???

If you're pumping in enough fuel to foul the plugs, you might not be getting complete ignition (very slow burning flame) - so there's still oxygen left over after combustion? The O2 sensor detects oxygen levels in the exhaust gas, not fuel.
Or you have one or more plugs not always firing properly, so the overall o2 level in the exhaust gas is higher than it should be?

[Jayme]

Hey guys
-we checked fuel pressure which is 90 psi odd at the pump which is adequate.

90 psi shouldnt be much more than 42....... return line blocked?