First RT Tuning Experience - OSE 12P BCLF based Camaro

[Holden202T]

if your wideband is after the collector from both banks i doubt its too close to the motor, i've seen them half this far and not have a problem.

[redcamaro]

Hmmm... okay, if that's the case then it's what you said before about it being too lean. I mean not about overheating at all. You are quite correct.

However, I initially thought of that because it said somehing about getting to hot in the installation instructions - and does get pretty damn hot under there.

I've got it accessible through the front wheel arch area where there's good airflow (I would think), and I made a flat copper plate about say 100mm by 40mm (like a rectangular washer) under it to help it cool.

Still you are right Holden202, it seems to only happen when the mix is on the leaner side. Thanks for the update

Now I wonder how I can get rid of that surging that we have in my log of the redcamaro-delcowizzid tune?

[redcamaro]

I had a moment so I made a short log from a 'cold' start. The vehicle parked since last making the last log, and no changes to the bin file.

redcamaro_tune delcowizzid 02 from cold start.xdl

short log from 'cold' start after vehicle sitting a few hours

(210.26 KiB) Downloaded 439 times

If I could get that flat spot on apply throttle, (and surging in the previously posted log) sorted out the vehicle would become reasonably driveable?

Delcowizzid has done such a great job, I'm reluctant to change anything.

[redcamaro]

Where should I go,.. is it tip-in, is it switching between tables from closed to open(ing) throttle, or is it still timing / VE related or something else like fuel pressure or why?

[redcamaro]

now that its running and driving you could turn on closed loop and see what the BLM tables look like to further tune the ve table

Okay, is that how you did it? Do tell... that surge is plaguing me... even though I'm busy doing other stuff I can't stop thinking about it.

To confirm this step, is the objective to get all of the cells reading 128 by manipulating the VE table with more or less fuel?

[Edit] Arrrgh! Where is the surge from closed throttle coming from?

[Holden202T]

depends on the adx configuration, some adx's are setup to show 100% when the blms are right and +/- when needing adjusting, but then others are setup to show 128 which is equivalent to 100% .... you should be able to go for a drive and log blm's in a histogram and then use these to work out the ve table adjustments.

if your only getting flat spot when applying the throttle you will probably need to look at the AE v's rpm table, might need more AE at certain rpm's.

[redcamaro]

depends on the adx configuration, some adx's are setup to show 100% when the blms are right and +/- when needing adjusting, but then others are setup to show 128 which is equivalent to 100% .... you should be able to go for a drive and log blm's in a histogram and then use these to work out the ve table adjustments.

if your only getting flat spot when applying the throttle you will probably need to look at the AE v's rpm table, might need more AE at certain rpm's.

Okay I guess AE is Accelerator Enrichment... The ADX is 1 Bar Petrol from $12P.

Thanks Holden202 I think it's getting pretty good, so now I want to avoid making changes before I know where the appropriate variable/s are/is and have some idea of the the effect to expect from making a change. Otherwise it's just "trial and error" - which is fine if you're just exploring or getting a feel for something.

Actually, I would be grateful if you or delcowizzid (or anyone experienced) check out the end of the first log I posted yesterday, the one where there is some freeway in the description.
Reason is on the freeway the surge was constant with static throttle, and gently increased throttle until suddenly took off. I think it's around minute 12 or 14... it says where in the post.

You'll see it in the monitors I guess - it'll be like starving for fuel while cruising on about 80km/h then as I then start to gently apply throttle ... suddenly lights up the freeway. So to speak....

It was funny coz when that happened I saw a radar cop on the side of the road, but luckily he was pointing in the other direction I wasn't speeding, but I had it in second for the revs, then when it came good it got even louder than it was.

Anyway, it also does it at slow speeds from closed throttle, and from increasing throttle. [Edits are for clarity of situ']

[Holden202T]

without a wideband input into your logs its going to be hard to work out the flat spot stuff!

i've just played your entire log back through TP5 though and theres plenty of BLM results you can use to tweak the VE table.

redcamaro-blm histo.jpg (139.33 KiB) Viewed 6106 times

as you can see above the ones that are not 100% can be adjusted in the VE table to get closer to this target.

also o2 histogram too ....

redcamaro-o2 histo.jpg (146.52 KiB) Viewed 6106 times

its hard to know exactly how to tune from here, but i can tell you that 950mv readings are WAY rich
i would also expect to be seeing 600-700mv at 2800rpm 50kpa, not 800+

have a read through the basic tuning guide which there is a link to in my signature, it tells you how to use $12P and tuning for basic fueling etc......

also i would suggest turning lean cruise off till you are happy with the VE table, it was pulling AFR to 16.7 at one point i saw, this would definately give you a lean spot when transitioning from cruise to AE (yes your correct that is accelerator enrichment) if the VE table is already lean in that spot.

above all i would recommend getting the Wideband on there, its alot more accurate than the narrow band especially for trying to tune throttle transition stuff.

[redcamaro]

Great stuff there Holden202 - I'm starting to 'tune in'. That's a very good post because it shows that you actually adjust BLM through the VE table, i.e. not directly in the BLM table. I didn't quite get that before. I was using AFR and Target AFR comparisons from the dashboard.

Okay turned off lean cruise, now I'm thinking that could be what was killing the wideband. Reason is I couldn't seem to get rid of the rich mix without it getting too lean - there seemed to be no middle ground. This rich mix is what I've been battling with since I got it running, 'right from the get go'.
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I've used the kinjiflow spreadsheet is 0.121 (so I've updated that now - still need to double check the current fuel pressure though).

redcamaro kinjiflow - got stock psi of 42 from thirdgen.org - got stock injector flow rate from original ABUT ($32B) bin

redcamaro-kinjiflow-121.png (120.07 KiB) Viewed 6098 times

redcamaro kinjiflow - sources: got stock psi of 42 from thirdgen.org - got stock injector flow rate from original ABUT ($32B) bin
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I've added another decimal digit in the ADX so I can see into the thousandths.
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I turned off lean cruise and went for a drive after also adjusting the kinjiflow displacement from 0.125 to 0.121 - to check that the wideband is working. It seems to be okay now.

This is the bin from the ECU after that log run (1).

redcamaro_delcowizzid-holden202-01.bin

log run (1) - should be first half of following xdl file with temp in it's name

(32 KiB) Downloaded 401 times

log run (1) - should be first half of following xdl file with temp in it's name

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Then I sat in the driveway for ages trying to adjust the BLM to 100 using the VE table. Just at idle 800 RPM and 60 kpa cell and neighbours. I couldn't get it any better than about 92%?

Other thing I noticed while chasing VE in the driveway is when the cooling fan comes on AFR and Target AFR changes to something different - made me think maybe the IAC is interfering with my attempts to get tuned.
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Then I'm not sure how to turn off closed loop, so I put temperature values to maximum for the VE idle, and the VE 20-whatever tables. Then unchecked the MAP A closed loop multiplier flag as well.

Then went for another run (2). Here is the bin for that log run (2).

redcamaro_delcowizzid-holden202-01-temp.bin

log run (2) - should be second half of following xdl file with temp in it's name

(32 KiB) Downloaded 389 times

log run (2) - should be second half of following xdl file with temp in it's name

And here's the log file it should contain log of both runs (1) & (2) above. The switch from 1 to 2 will be about half way through it.

redcamaro-delcowizzid-holden202-01-temp.xdl

the log file from 2 runs first is (1) then (2) midway through

(158.24 KiB) Downloaded 385 times

Feels like I'm almost there - almost getting it but something doesn't seem right, like I'm chasing my tail. I was only working with a single cell... one moment it's AFR target is met - next moment it's too lean. It's a frustrating and potentially discouraging situation.

[redcamaro]

Where is the VE Calculator Spreadsheet that the basics guide refers to, does it go by another name?