Metering 900 g/s airflow with MAS ???

[antus]

kalmaker have increased the 500g/s limit allready. Charlays offer sounds good. I want to see you hit the limit, and if you do hes the man to push it further without kalmaker. I think you should pick up that challenge. I assume you would start at lower boost then wind it up as it works, so there is really nothing stopping you from getting started. Im keen to see how you get on, thats a lot of boost and power!

12P does still support the VS BCM, as the 3082 computer (which is an 808 with high speed comms from factory) was released in the VS with the VS V8 manual, and VL400 has retained the code for VS BCM VATS support.

[charlay86]

Some quick calcs...

20 psi boost = 239.22 kPa manifold pressure
manifold air temp (random guess) 50°C = 323.15 K
R (gas constant for air) = 287.058 J / kg* K
density of air in manifold = 239,220 / ( 323.15 * 287.058) = 2.579 kg/m³ = 2.579 grams/litre
volume of cylinder = 3.8 litres / 6 = 0.633 litres
theoretical Cylinder air mass = 0.633 litres * 2.579 grams/litre = 1.633 grams = 1633 milligrams

7000 RPM / 20 = 350 cycles / second
Mass Air Flow = 350 cycles * 1633 milligrams = 571.55 grams/second

[CKATM]

I totally agree with Antus, it's much better if you don't have to fool the PCM.

How fast are you planning on spinning this thing?
Something to consider is that the standard ignition system is only really designed to work properly up to 6400 rpm.

If you can approach the 511g/s limit I'll see what I can do about extending it.

kalmaker have increased the 500g/s limit allready. Charlays offer sounds good. I want to see you hit the limit, and if you do hes the man to push it further without kalmaker. I think you should pick up that challenge. I assume you would start at lower boost then wind it up as it works, so there is really nothing stopping you from getting started. Im keen to see how you get on, thats a lot of boost and power!

12P does still support the VS BCM, as the 3082 computer (which is an 808 with high speed comms from factory) was released in the VS with the VS V8 manual, and VL400 has retained the code for VS BCM VATS support.

Some quick calcs...

20 psi boost = 239.22 kPa manifold pressure
manifold air temp (random guess) 50°C = 323.15 K
R (gas constant for air) = 287.058 J / kg* K
density of air in manifold = 239,220 / ( 323.15 * 287.058) = 2.579 kg/m³ = 2.579 grams/litre
volume of cylinder = 3.8 litres / 6 = 0.633 litres
theoretical Cylinder air mass = 0.633 litres * 2.579 grams/litre = 1.633 grams = 1633 milligrams

7000 RPM / 20 = 350 cycles / second
Mass Air Flow = 350 cycles * 1633 milligrams = 571.55 grams/second

Hey Guy's,
I'm keen to start stuffing around with the turbo now, but I still need to make some pipes (turbo manifold). I'm waiting on some flanges to come over, and I need to also get some stainless mandrel bends. Before I can start working on any of that, there's also the matter of cleaning my workshop- we owner built a new house about 4 years ago and have moved in, but the workshop I built as part of the house has shit everywhere (was building cabinets and shit for the house in it). Need to clean and organise that even though I haven't worked out where I'm gonna put everything (should be a great workshop when setup- it's brick attached to the house and 4.5m high with a commercial roller door entry and a mezzanine floor over half of it- about 80m sqr floor space + the mezzanine). Enough rambling about that.. Also need to get the car registered before putting any Turbo gear, or installing tha roll cage. I bought a very cheap VS with a body kit, full electrics & good mags for $800, and it's fairly good over all. Should be able to get it looking respectable without too much effort (for now).
Over the last 2 years, I've sold about $15,000 worth of my 308 engine gear (on Gum Tree). It was for a new 355 engine I was planning to build about 10 years ago and a lot of it was brand new in the box- dash 11 efi benet heads, brand new Auscrank 3.5" stroke 4340 steel crank, lunati 4340 6" conrods, and lots of titanium valve train gear etc. Last week I sold my standard bore VN Group A 4 bolt main block and the brand new mechanical roller lifters (which hurt). You may have seen the parts on gum tree under "drag" in Cockburn area. Still have a few bit's left, but not too much. Alot of this will be funded from that, and I know It won't pay for all of it, but should be able to get the motor in the car and producing the power I want (before I blow up the diff and tranny).
It's been a few years since I've stuffed with a hotty, so with this project, I'm more or less starting again. I also have to work it in with my job (where I sometimes work some fairly hefty hours), and try and give some time to my family.
So this may take me some time to put together.


With the ECU, I'm definately planning on trying it out before, and upping the boost bit by bit to see where it maxes out. I got my VS VRAM board and interface today, so if I get some time over the weekend I'll try and set it up and have a play wit it (that is if the Mrs doesn't get me doing anything). I only currently have a VS computer (which is in the car I'm going to do all this to)- I also have an LS1 V8 computer sitting in my workshop.
With the ignition, I do know someone who's using a delco ECU reliably to 7200 RPM- both on 98 pump, and E85. So I'll give it a try first.

-Antus, I agree that Charlay's sounds great, and I'll definately work on that basis ( I hope it doesn't max out, as it's definately a lot less stuffing around)- just need to clarify something (which you may have answered, but I'm not sure of the model numbers you quoted)

-charlay86, are you talking about expanding the VT computer tables (as you mentioned previously), or the enhanced VS ? If the VT, will the VT run my transmission?
With your calcs, looks like it'll be over or close- that's based on 20lbs boost but I may need to run more than that to get what I'm chasing. I calculated 680 g/s for 750 HP from the turbo matcing equasions (putting aside the boost pressure).
The Fords must be a little more efficient (which I find hard to believe and can't process), with slightly bigger engine (I think 4 litre ??), pent head- a bit newer design etc and probably don't need as much boost to achieve the same given HP.

[CKATM]

Hey Guys,
Ive put in the VRAM board with VS enhanced N/A BIN (used standard VS Auto PCM), took the car for a runaround the block and logged some data to see how it works, the system looks really good. You guy's have done a really good job on it.

Looking through the amount of tables and flags, I can see why you said it's not a good idea to 'fool' the computer. I can understand what a lot of the tables, scalers and flags do, but there's a lot I'm not sure about. May need to get up to swpeed with some of the terminology.
As far as I can work out, the scalers are the base configs, the flags help switch between stuff (the if/thens etc), and the tables are the running data it switches between (generally speaking) ???
Quite a bit to learn.

Is there any introduction to tuning with CKUL document anywhere on the forum (like the 12 version that I've read) ?
Also, I noticed it shows wide band O2's in the log screens. I was told that the bin isnt compatible with wide band yet. Is this something to still be added, or did I miss understand that ?

Cheers

[The1]

the current version of enhanced will only support wideband input through the B12 injector monitor line this is only a 0-60 count A/D input, though if you can wait a couple of days i will have the next version out which has the 2 spare inputs enabled B10 and A5 which are full 0-255, just finishing real world testing. Or i can send it over now if you want to have a run with it.

The FAQ page if you havn't already read it has a lot of points and links to other info.

https://pcmhacking.net/forums/view ... f=7&t=1396

[antus]

The significance of the 0-60 vs 0-255 is resolution/accuracy. Using the injector line for wideband input will still give you useable info in the logs, it'll just be slightly more pixelated to the eye and slightly less accurate. You'll still get a pretty good idea how far out your fueling is.

[The1]

The significance of the 0-60 vs 0-255 is resolution/accuracy. Using the injector line for wideband input will still give you useable info in the logs, it'll just be slightly more pixelated to the eye and slightly less accurate. You'll still get a pretty good idea how far out your fueling is.

This is true, though id want all the resolution i can get with that setup! also with 2 spare inputs you could run dual wideband kits, which is probably ideal with the power he wants to make so you can tweak things per bank. I know charlay was also looking at adding more things per bank or cyl.

[CKATM]

Thanks Guys,
I have already recently bought a standalone wideband guage kit, which coming over. Its only a single sensor unit but it'll give me a fuel ratio reading while driving. Might add wideband sensors to connect into the PCM down the track.

So the B12 injector monitor just works out the wideband resented figures from the O2 sensor readingds ??
I'm getting a reading on the dashboard in the wideband area of about 39-40, and a reading of about 5-6 in the left & right o2 banks.
I'm assuming the left and right O2 figures are the O2 volage output (.5 & .6) which is a little above Ideal-stoichiometry - Is that correct ?
What's the 39 - 40 reading I'm getting from the wideband mean exactly in terms of fuel mixture ? Is 30 Ideal-stoichiometry and 40 a little rich

[antus]

If you havnt connected a wideband yet then ignore the wideband data in the log as it will not be real wideband data, its the injector voltage with the wrong equation. We have re purposed the injector voltage monitor as its present in the factory system but not critical to its operation. We just use it as an input for the standalone wideband controller instead. As the1 says, soon it'll be implemented using spare inputs to the pcm with higher resolution. Its definitely the way to go so that you have the wideband data stored in your logs alongside everything else and can review it off line from the car at your own pace later.

[CKATM]

Thanks for clearing that up.

So with installing a larger MAF, do I just enter the new frequency outputs in the Mass Flow tables, and everything else takes care of itself (more or less) ?

Larger Injectors, enter new figures in Run A/FParam ?

So I could see the Open Loop Air Fuel Ratio V's RPM is the target fuel ratio in open loop, so which tables set the target fuel ratio in closed loop ?