EFI Windsor Delco conversion

[EFINOOB]

After sending VL400 a PM with some questions about the conversion i had in mind, he suggested that i should start a thread as these questions may help others who are thinking of similar conversions. I guess if im asking these questions theres probably others who are doing the same thing lol

As the subject suggest, my plan is to convert a Windsor running EEC-IV/V to a Delco system. I've already asked some general questions in another thread so I'll try and keep this more specific and on topic



With the delco conversion I had in mind, converting a Windsor to run off a Delco, would there be any benefit to running a VR V8 manual ECM other than it already having the high speed comm's and being able to use the plug and play OBD/USB adapter? (I like the look of it for some reason..lol) As opposed to using a VN V8 loom and ECM?

If there's no benefit aside from the comm's and given that all the earlier 808's from what I have read apear to be the same could I use, for example, a JE camira wring harness and ECM with the extra injectors wired in? Obviously it's not that simple, I'll need to adapt/wire an original Windsor V8 dizzy to a V8 ignition module or setup a crank trigger like Holden202 with the Camira/Pulsar reluctor style dizzy module etc etc... Rad work by the way Holden202T
But can it be done? Are the looms that simple? From what i've seen so far TPS, IAC, MAP, MAT and Coolant senders/sensors all seem to be very similar if not the same items. Changing and remaking looms doesnt bother me in the slightest, I've already hidden the looms in a couple of cars, one of which was EFI.

I'm reading about the VSS... Is a speed sensor required in a running vehicle? Even if its manual? At first I'd like to get an engine running on a stand to learn the basics and get a feel for everything, so I'm figuring that a VSS won't be needed to start with. I've done plenty of Carby/Holley tunning and understand the basics of efi, what role each component performs ect, but I'm fairly new to the terms and ideas that come with it therefor the reasoning for wanting to start playing on the bench.

What happens on a V8 in regards to the pair of NB O2 sensors? Do they have there own individual inputs to the ECM or do the joined signals go into one input? Simple question I know but I've been scratching my head about it lol

Also on the subject of O2 sensors, would the 14Point7 Spartan Lambda sensor (the compact little inline jobby) be a suitable wideband setup to use for tuning? I'm not interested in a fancy gauge for this setup, just something thats functional.


Thanks for your help so far guys

[VL400]

With the delco conversion I had in mind, converting a Windsor to run off a Delco, would there be any benefit to running a VR V8 manual ECM other than it already having the high speed comm's and being able to use the plug and play OBD/USB adapter? (I like the look of it for some reason..lol) As opposed to using a VN V8 loom and ECM?

Performance wise there is nothing. The main advantage other than ALDL is its newer with a slightly revised layout. You can also convert a '808 to have ALDL built in to it so its operates identically to a VR manual .. https://pcmhacking.net/forums/view ... f=14&t=398
Also note, all V6 and V8 ECUs are identical with only the memcal changing.

If there's no benefit aside from the comm's and given that all the earlier 808's from what I have read apear to be the same could I use, for example, a JE camira wring harness and ECM with the extra injectors wired in? Obviously it's not that simple, I'll need to adapt/wire an original Windsor V8 dizzy to a V8 ignition module or setup a crank trigger like Holden202 with the Camira/Pulsar reluctor style dizzy module etc etc... Rad work by the way Holden202T
But can it be done? Are the looms that simple? From what i've seen so far TPS, IAC, MAP, MAT and Coolant senders/sensors all seem to be very similar if not the same items. Changing and remaking looms doesnt bother me in the slightest, I've already hidden the looms in a couple of cars, one of which was EFI.

The camira loom is nice as it has integrated fuses and relays. They are getting harder to find now though. Can use pretty much any loom, the main difference and issue is getting plugs for the ignition module you decide to use. Do you know what type of sensor the factory dizzy has?

I'm reading about the VSS... Is a speed sensor required in a running vehicle? Even if its manual? At first I'd like to get an engine running on a stand to learn the basics and get a feel for everything, so I'm figuring that a VSS won't be needed to start with. I've done plenty of Carby/Holley tunning and understand the basics of efi, what role each component performs ect, but I'm fairly new to the terms and ideas that come with it therefor the reasoning for wanting to start playing on the bench.

A speed sensor is not critical but you will notice its missing. When coming to a stop the revs will remain higher than normal and without some throttle stop you may find it stalls.

What happens on a V8 in regards to the pair of NB O2 sensors? Do they have there own individual inputs to the ECM or do the joined signals go into one input? Simple question I know but I've been scratching my head about it lol

There is only one narrowband sensor. They need to be hot so generally are in one bank only. You can have a bung in each bank and tune from the richest side and then install the narrowband in that when done with the wideband.

Also on the subject of O2 sensors, would the 14Point7 Spartan Lambda sensor (the compact little inline jobby) be a suitable wideband setup to use for tuning? I'm not interested in a fancy gauge for this setup, just something thats functional.

Yep that will work. You just need one that has a 0-5V linear output. The 14point7 kit is has 0-5V corresponding to 10-20 AFR. 12P can be configured for that.

[EFINOOB]

Thanks man

Performance wise there is nothing. The main advantage other than ALDL is its newer with a slightly revised layout. You can also convert a '808 to have ALDL built in to it so its operates identically to a VR manual .. viewtopic.php?f=14&t=398
Also note, all V6 and V8 ECUs are identical with only the memcal changing.

So is this how it goes...

808 + NVRAM + SXR Emulator = Progammable VR ecm with 8192buad ALDL? (Then connect through OBD port with USB addapter?)
808 + NVRAM + RS232 COMMS board MK2 = Programmable 808 with 8192baud over rs232?
808 + NVRAM + USB COMMS board = Programmable 808 with 8192baud over usb?
I'm hoping this spoon comes with aeroplane noises...

The camira loom is nice as it has integrated fuses and relays. They are getting harder to find now though. Can use pretty much any loom, the main difference and issue is getting plugs for the ignition module you decide to use. Do you know what type of sensor the factory dizzy has?

I've got a hold of a JE camira loom & ECM, thats what i had planned on using for the bench test loom because of the intergrated fuses and relays.
As for the dizzy, in the murky depths of a dinner plate sized, TFI windsor distributor is a hall effect sensor so it would require the use of a Holden V8 ignition module. Can you mix and match Ignition modules like that? Say for instance the setup started off with a windsor dizzy then went to a crank trigger, can you just swap over modules?


Holy sh*t, every answer i find seems to leave me with another 10 questions... =

[antus]

Yep, eveything you said there is correct. The usb comms board is the norm. The delco has 4 wires for ignition - EST (electronic spark timing, an output), Bypass (tells the module if it should provide timing eg at low RPM when starting or if the ecu is ready to take over), Ref high (reference signal from the ignition module) and Ref low (the ground side of the reference signal). That is common to v8 ignition modules, camira modules, coil pack modules - eg all of them. You just need to check the pinouts and line those 4 up for signalling to swap trigger system/module.

[EFINOOB]

Thanks for the help guys!

Currently in the process of collecting more parts, building the test stand and reading... lol

On a side note, has anyone had any experience with this module? Part# 90 243 618

It mounts to the back of the coil in an SB Barina which has a delco 808 looking ECM but a different part number that i didnt take note of... Its a Centre/Single point injection setup, GM Map sensor and the same IAC & TPS as all other delco's seem to run.
The dizzy had three wires connecting to it so I'm assuming there will be a hall effect sensor type, but havent had a chance to pull one apart.

Just wondering if its a smaller alternative to the V8 Ignition module....?